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Permanent Daylight Saving Time? Florida Says Yes, but It’s Not So Simple

nytimes.com

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Re: Permanent Daylight Saving Time? Florida Says Yes, but It’s Not So Simple

#271

Post by akkat »

landryraccoon wrote: post #247
teeray wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As nice as that would be for code, people would still be left with trying to answer "is this a reasonable time to contact someone?" across great distances. The utility provided by time zones is a function for us to take our local time and determine whether or not we're interrupting someone's evening or sleep. Not to mention, travel alarm clocks everywhere would need to be sold with a book of "reasonable waking times"…

This thread is making it very apparent to me that programmers live in a bubble. Most people on earth don't have to contact someone outside of their timezone even once a week. Some people on earth don't contact anyone outside of their timezone even once a year. Why the heck would anyone suggest make a massively disruptive change to their lives in exchange for making life slightly easier for programmers? That's complet…

That other suggestion isn't good either. Let's say there is a train that leaves at a certain time. They will have to provide the exact GPS coordinates for someone to know when they need to be at the train station

Re: Permanent Daylight Saving Time? Florida Says Yes, but It’s Not So Simple

#272

Post by BrandoElFollito »

dpark wrote: post #243
birdmanjeremy wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UTC is a terrible choice, I don't even know what time I would wake up in UTC. My family in NC would never know what time to call. I'd be OK with PST or MST/PDT. I'd prefer more light in the evenings though, I work an early schedule and don't actually care if it's light when I go to the office.

> I don't even know what time I would wake up in UTC. You’d probably wake up about the same UTC time that you currently wake up, whatever that is. Do you imagine that if your state switched to UTC everyone would just begin a free for all and show up to school and work just whenever? Of course not. > My family in NC would never know what time to call. Probably the exact same time they call now. I can’t imagine why the…

It would be complicated to answer questions such as "what time does school starts in your county"?

Today if you are American and I am French, if I say "we start at 8:30 and finish at 16:30" you would understand immediately. In UTC you would need to convert.

Of course UTC helps when we need to agree on the time to have a call.

I guess the advantage vs drawback depends on the kind of messages people usually convey

Re: Permanent Daylight Saving Time? Florida Says Yes, but It’s Not So Simple

#273

Post by TheCoelacanth »

bunderbunder wrote: post #91
FreeFull wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DST can make sense if you're sufficiently far north/south, but definitely doesn't if you're closer to the equator. And for Florida DST probably never made sense.

Even way up north, I'd rather have summer time all year. Having it get dark around 3:30 in the afternoon in the middle of winter is a drag . That said, I've found there's a lot of resistance to the idea among parents. On standard time, it's light out when kids are on their way to school. On daylight time, it would be dark then.

The schools should just be starting at a later time. There is already ample evidence that school start times are too early for students.

Re: Permanent Daylight Saving Time? Florida Says Yes, but It’s Not So Simple

#274

Post by landryraccoon »

akkat wrote: post #271
landryraccoon wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This thread is making it very apparent to me that programmers live in a bubble. Most people on earth don't have to contact someone outside of their timezone even once a week. Some people on earth don't contact anyone outside of their timezone even once a year. Why the heck would anyone suggest make a massively disruptive change to their lives in exchange for making life slightly easier for programmers? That's complet…

That other suggestion isn't good either. Let's say there is a train that leaves at a certain time. They will have to provide the exact GPS coordinates for someone to know when they need to be at the train station

That’s not as hard as it sounds. Google maps probably knows the exact location based on the name. Also, the user only needs to know the time at the station and the offset from local time e.g. “train leaves at 3 pm local, the time at the station is about 2 hours ahead of you now”.

Re: Permanent Daylight Saving Time? Florida Says Yes, but It’s Not So Simple

#275

Post by dpark »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #272
dpark wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't even know what time I would wake up in UTC. You’d probably wake up about the same UTC time that you currently wake up, whatever that is. Do you imagine that if your state switched to UTC everyone would just begin a free for all and show up to school and work just whenever? Of course not. > My family in NC would never know what time to call. Probably the exact same time they call now. I can’t imagine why the…

It would be complicated to answer questions such as "what time does school starts in your county"? Today if you are American and I am French, if I say "we start at 8:30 and finish at 16:30" you would understand immediately. In UTC you would need to convert. Of course UTC helps when we need to agree on the time to have a call. I guess the advantage vs drawback depends on the kind of messages people usually convey

> It would be complicated to answer questions such as "what time does school starts in your county"?

That question is difficult to answer now. I live in Seattle and our schools aren’t consistent even within the city. The variance in start time among public schools is >1 hour.

I don’t actually want UTC. But I’d take it over the current crap.

Re: Permanent Daylight Saving Time? Florida Says Yes, but It’s Not So Simple

#276

Post by lenocinor »

dpark wrote: post #275
BrandoElFollito wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be complicated to answer questions such as "what time does school starts in your county"? Today if you are American and I am French, if I say "we start at 8:30 and finish at 16:30" you would understand immediately. In UTC you would need to convert. Of course UTC helps when we need to agree on the time to have a call. I guess the advantage vs drawback depends on the kind of messages people usually convey

> It would be complicated to answer questions such as "what time does school starts in your county"? That question is difficult to answer now. I live in Seattle and our schools aren’t consistent even within the city. The variance in start time among public schools is >1 hour. I don’t actually want UTC. But I’d take it over the current crap.

I feel compelled to post https://qntm.org/abolish .

EDIT: Ah, of course someone already posted it in this thread.

Re: Permanent Daylight Saving Time? Florida Says Yes, but It’s Not So Simple

#277

Post by dpark »

lenocinor wrote: post #276
dpark wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be complicated to answer questions such as "what time does school starts in your county"? That question is difficult to answer now. I live in Seattle and our schools aren’t consistent even within the city. The variance in start time among public schools is >1 hour. I don’t actually want UTC. But I’d take it over the current crap.

I feel compelled to post https://qntm.org/abolish . EDIT: Ah, of course someone already posted it in this thread.

I feel compelled to point out that I specifically said I do not want UTC. :) I simply hate the daylight savings time switch so much that I’d choose standardization on UTC over it. I’d much, much prefer constant standard or daylight time (with time zones) over UTC though.

Re: Permanent Daylight Saving Time? Florida Says Yes, but It’s Not So Simple

#278

Post by BrandoElFollito »

dpark wrote: post #275
BrandoElFollito wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be complicated to answer questions such as "what time does school starts in your county"? Today if you are American and I am French, if I say "we start at 8:30 and finish at 16:30" you would understand immediately. In UTC you would need to convert. Of course UTC helps when we need to agree on the time to have a call. I guess the advantage vs drawback depends on the kind of messages people usually convey

> It would be complicated to answer questions such as "what time does school starts in your county"? That question is difficult to answer now. I live in Seattle and our schools aren’t consistent even within the city. The variance in start time among public schools is >1 hour. I don’t actually want UTC. But I’d take it over the current crap.

Well yes, I mean every timing relative to the day/night cycle will be difficult. "What time do your kids go to bed?" , "what time are the main news?", etc. Saying 13:00 will not help me.

OTOH everything which is international will be easier.

This is a trade-off.

Now - I am also against DST, but would realistically keep immutable timezones.

Re: Permanent Daylight Saving Time? Florida Says Yes, but It’s Not So Simple

#279

Post by CydeWeys »

krapp wrote: post #184
CydeWeys wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Constitution grants the federal government the power to pass laws, and "setting your own time" isn't explicitly enumerated as a right that is reserved to the states.

Any rights not granted to the Federal government by the Constitution are reserved by the states and the people by default.

The commerce clause seems limitless in what it will allow.

Re: Permanent Daylight Saving Time? Florida Says Yes, but It’s Not So Simple

#280

Post by nknealk »

velobro wrote: post #99
nick238 wrote: post #29

This is reason #532 or so why we need gigantic libraries to deal with dates and times. "24 hours in a day", "60 seconds in a minute", lol, no.

Microsoft Outlook for Mac has yet another DST related bug. This time, all calendar events will start an hour late on the week of the 11th if you a) have the week to start on Sunday and b) use the 7 day a week calendar It's been fun having to communicate this with all my clients. https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/office/en-US/a43...

I made an account to tell you this was driving me mad and after much google, I landed on your comment. Switching the start of week to Monday fixed the problem and I'm eternally grateful.
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