Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 339 posts

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#271

Post by literallycancer »

chimeracoder wrote: post #92
Joeboy wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tube drivers are well paid and yes that does impact the levels of sympathy available to them. £55k isn't that well paid for people who have to live in or near London. Not if you consider it the kind of job where you should be able to afford luxuries like a family, a car, a mortgage, saving for retirement etc. It probably does sound like a lot to people who live outside London and / or aren't considering those thing…

> £55k isn't that well paid for people who have to live in or near London It's more than the typical software engineer can expect to make in London. Source: Glassdoor, Indeed, talking to colleagues who live in London, and my own memories from my last job search.

Yea, if you are working as an engineer for less than 55k in London (i.e. the most expensive city in Europe) you are doing something wrong.

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#272

Post by brianwawok »

Thlom wrote: post #261

How do unions work in the US? From what I hear it sounds like members are "employed" by the union and the company is forced to hire workers from the union? Have I misunderstood? In Europe workers are hired by the company and are free to enter whichever union he or she wants or not to join a union. Usually all workers at a workplace join the same union and form a local branch/club at the workplace. Unions are national…

My limited union experience as a highschooler.

I worked as a stocker at Kroger grocery store. Made maybe $6 an hour. During interviewing, I was told that stocking at Kroger was a union position, and in order to accept the job I had to join the union. I know it somehow tied into a national union, and am sure I could google it.. but I know nothing about it.

Every week, I had an $8 deduction from my paycheck to union dues. Otherwise, it was no different from any other job. I interviewed with the store (Kroger). I got a paycheck from Kroger. I maybe had a piece of paper with a phone number of a union rep, but I never made contact with the union (for good or bad). The pay was the same as the non-union grocery store across town.

So for me personally it was nothing except $8 a week to some union bosses. But I have been AROUND many other unions, and the experiences can be far different. For example, the Chicago Public schools have a very strong union. Because of it, teachers are paid a fair bit higher than other comparable cities. In theory teachers are protected from unjust firings and harassment. As cons, the teachers get no merit award, 100% pay is based on tenure. Great for the bottom half of teachers, not so good for the top half of teachers. It also makes it basically impossible to fire a teacher if there is not a videotape of the teacher beating a kid.

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#274

Post by literallycancer »

user15672 wrote: post #188
eru wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be very junior to make less than 55k GBP as a software developer in London. (Like less than three years working experience or so.)

This really isn't true and I really wish this myth would stop. Sure, if you go into the financial sector or find a startup where they don't know their arse from their elbow about software workers, you can dupe them into giving you more money. But 55k in London is a good wage for a software developer and you're definitely not looking at that if you're mid-level and working for a regular company. Source: I've lived and…

Care to explain how 55k GBP (60k EUR) can be a good wage, when the average new grad software developer in Germany makes like 50k EUR? And the cost of living is what, half or less than what it is in London?

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#275

Post by arethuza »

srtjstjsj wrote: post #260
arethuza wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the TINA argument - "There Is No Alternative" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_is_no_alternative Which is why some people in the UK hate the NHS so much, purely on ideological grounds, as it is an example of a popular, avowedly socialist, organisation that does work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_medicine_in_the_UK

I'm not sure what point that comment is supposed to make - as that very page describes it as a "small niche market"?

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#276

Post by e12e »

RobertoG wrote: post #205
rconti wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely agree free riders are a problem with unions. But that doesn't mean right to work laws shouldn't exist. Maybe it just means unions shouldn't exist. I mean, if your entire business model is flawed, should the world change around your business model? This is more of a devil's advocate position, as I'm not particularly anti-union, but I personally have zero desire to work in a union or be forced to be in one…

"[..] if your entire business model is flawed [..]" Unions go a little deep than the concept of "business model" "[..] I personally have zero desire to work in a union or be forced to be in one." I'm going to speculate that's only because you have good working conditions. "unions [..] have a place in the past" That's a common opinion. What have changed from the past? Because the laws of capitalism tell us that if any…

>> "unions [..] have a place in the past"

> That's a common opinion. What have changed from the past?

Reminds me of a quote I recently came across by Danish communist and activist Carl Scharnberg, roughly translated as:

"The teacher told his pupils that the class struggle is over! A pupil asks: Who won?"

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#277

Post by swypych »

hackermailman wrote: post #179
nindalf wrote: post #128

> The company said salaries paid to its workers were among the highest in the logistic sector and that it also provided some benefits such as private medical insurance or money to pay for training programs. Not a criticism of either Amazon or the unions but I would really appreciate it if news sources would verify these claims one way or another. Obviously as a wire service, that may not be Reuters' job but whether A…

I talk to workers here in Canada the starting salaries and benefits are about average, definitely not 'highest in the sector' or any such nonsense though maybe in Europe they are in order to attract employees. Here they are expected to do 10-12hr overtime shifts every day, and work as hard as possible without breaks to make bonuses which are inconsistent, and because there's no union representation harassment galore…

“Wire service”?

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#278

Post by grondilu »

> Unions said in a statement more than 500 Amazon workers at the Piacenza site in northern Italy had agreed to strike following a failure to negotiate bonuses with the company.

They could not get bonuses, so they go on strike? Jeez, Amazon really needs to work on automating its warehouses ASAP, for it seems to me workers greed is becoming a problem.

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#279

Post by pnathan »

sliverstorm wrote: post #197
djsumdog wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strikers in US media are often belittled. Think back to the Occupy Movement. The banks were bailed out, none of those people who caused so much misery were ever put in jail, and the media belittled Occupy as being directionless and pointless. The protest was huge, stretching across cities and countries, but there was never any accountability for the banksters. It shows again as the Equifax execs were cleared of insid…

the media belittled Occupy as being directionless Was it not? I called it so from the start; they had a list of something like 29 totally unrelated demands, and never managed to narrow it down.

This is my recollection as well. I tried to follow it relatively closely. It was a laundry list of demands and all a bit pie in the sky. There was no specific a,b,c policy actions being requested in order to solve a single linked problem. The leaderless nature of the business made it rather toothless.

An example is http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-o... . One person posted it.

What was profoundly misunderstood by the Occupiers was that they had no leverage to negotiate with. Their sole power was being visible. That doesn't get much in the way of negotiations.

The thing that most bothered me about OWS was the disproportionate response by the police and miscellaneous conservative talking heads. Having a camp of protesters is simply something to not be bothered about except as a public health question. It's just not that big of a deal.

All that said, you can unpack the OWS complaints and produce some root causes that might be reasonably addressed. I'm given to understand that the OWS experience produced a network that in 2016 linked with Bernie Sanders' campaign, which was considerably more grounded compared to Occupy.

Post reply on HN