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I have no side code projects to show you

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Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#271

Post by jfultz »

jasonswett wrote: post #21

It's a very well-known fact that interviewers will often want to see some code. Because of this, I at one point spent maybe about 15 hours putting together a small project specifically to use as a code sample. This code sample, which again took maybe about 15 hours to put together, served its purpose for years. To avoid this tiny amount of easy work that has such a high potential upside is, to be frank, just dumb and…

There seems to be a lot of push-back around here on the basis that nobody asks for it/cares/looks at it. I agree that would be annoying if that's your experience. But, speaking as a hiring manager, I can say that I won't even grant you a phone screen without a code sample. And do not be surprised if I ask questions about it (I don't always, but depending upon the nature of the resume and position, I do probably about half the time). I read every sample and assess it for competence, quality of construction, style and...unfortunately these days...whether it was plagiarized.

I just have to know that you can write decent code. I don't want to waste my time or yours if your code in the language we need is not up to a minimum standard. When I have to train a new candidate on a million line code base, I cannot afford to spend time also training them to be competent in the native language of that code base.

This is not about "coding passion" or notches on some Github post...this is about whether you can do the job. Although one advantage to a Github profile is I can look at your repos and see whether you understand the basics of using git as well (yet another requirement of the position).

I, for one, think your 15 hours was well-invested.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#272

Post by tootie »

kelnos wrote: post #32
shortsightedsid wrote: post #25

It's funny that the tech industry is so insistent on side projects. I mean - would you hire a marketing person based on their 'side projects' or a corporate lawyer purely based on their pro-bono work? Likewise, who on earth asks a building contractor if they have any side projects? You would ask for references or find a contractor via someone you know. What about recruiters themselves? How does one judge if a person…

The next time I'm interviewing in front of a hiring manager who asks me about my side coding projects, I'm going to ask them about their side managing projects.

Haha. That's called my kids and if you want them at your interview, I'll be more than happy to bring them.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#274

Post by kemitche »

apple4ever wrote: post #202
eropple wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side? As somebody who has plenty of open source projects--the set of employers who actually looks at them is within epsilon of zero. I have not once, not once gotten a meaningful question from anything I have posted on Github in any interview or client meeting even after suggesting up-front that it's worth taking a look. And I used to interview on a monthly basis just to keep in practice! No--instead you…

You must be applying to the wrong companies then. I just got done doing interviews, and I looked at what the second round candidates had available on GitHub and their personal site, and the one who got the job had about 5 projects that were impressive. Good employers care. I care. Its not signaling. Its important.

It's not important. You're skipping out on a large pool of fantastic candidates who have families and hobbies outside of work. People who save their best programming effort for their job. Relying on GitHub / side projects as a barrier to entry is ridiculous to me.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#275

Post by my_username_is_ »

shortsightedsid wrote: post #25

It's funny that the tech industry is so insistent on side projects. I mean - would you hire a marketing person based on their 'side projects' or a corporate lawyer purely based on their pro-bono work? Likewise, who on earth asks a building contractor if they have any side projects? You would ask for references or find a contractor via someone you know. What about recruiters themselves? How does one judge if a person…

>Does one really ask a Mechanical Engineer or a Civil Engineer about their side projects?

Yes, sometimes. I'm a mechanical engineer, and frequently interviewers would ask what sorts of projects or engineering related hobbies I have. They're not necessarily looking for me to have brought a mass-produced consumer product to market in my spare time... most mechanical engineers I've met seem to be excited enough if you talk about working on cars or bikes.

I can see how software engineering may be similar. They may not be expecting you to be working on some hugely popular app, they may just be trying to get a gauge on what you're really passionate about. I don't like to wrench on cars in my spare time, but I've still gotten job offers after it comes up. In the end it's just a matter of finding the team that has similar values to you.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#277

Post by [deleted] »

warcher wrote: post #31

I’m not mad at you, but as the dude on the other side of the desk, I have to decide whether you can cut it and I’m fine saying no. I could make you do some whiteboard problems, but I think whiteboard problems are pretty far removed from your day to day development and I am uncomfortable relying on them as a proxy for your ability to ship code. I don’t really disagree with your philosophy of working while you’re worki…

[deleted]

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#278

Post by nitwit005 »

shortsightedsid wrote: post #25

It's funny that the tech industry is so insistent on side projects. I mean - would you hire a marketing person based on their 'side projects' or a corporate lawyer purely based on their pro-bono work? Likewise, who on earth asks a building contractor if they have any side projects? You would ask for references or find a contractor via someone you know. What about recruiters themselves? How does one judge if a person…

> It's funny that the tech industry is so insistent on side projects.

Are they? I've yet to be asked about it. It might be different for new grads, but what people seem to care about most is if you've worked for a major firm, or in the case of the video game industry, a "AAA title".

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#279

Post by voidmain »

eropple wrote: post #42
warcher wrote: post #31

I’m not mad at you, but as the dude on the other side of the desk, I have to decide whether you can cut it and I’m fine saying no. I could make you do some whiteboard problems, but I think whiteboard problems are pretty far removed from your day to day development and I am uncomfortable relying on them as a proxy for your ability to ship code. I don’t really disagree with your philosophy of working while you’re worki…

On the flip side? As somebody who has plenty of open source projects--the set of employers who actually looks at them is within epsilon of zero. I have not once, not once gotten a meaningful question from anything I have posted on Github in any interview or client meeting even after suggesting up-front that it's worth taking a look. And I used to interview on a monthly basis just to keep in practice! No--instead you…

I disagree with you, and grandparent, and the article :-)

I've hired plenty of great engineers who didn't have side projects on github. I have never specifically been looking for people that don't have a life outside the field, and unlike GP I have found that there are other ways to evaluate people that can identify great engineers with very few mistakes.

But that doesn't mean I wouldn't see your high quality or impressive open source code as a huge plus. Quantity doesn't matter -- if anything if you're super prolific I might wonder if you have much energy for your day job -- but I'm not going to pass up a chance to see what kind of work you do.

And because quantity doesn't matter, I think that writing a little bit of code "for your resume" (every once in a while, to reflect your continuing development as an engineer) is a pretty reasonable investment even if you don't happen to want to spend your whole life outside work programming. It's not required, but it might get you a really great position some day, even if like the OP you're up front about having a life outside of software engineering.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#280

Post by deathanatos »

kemitche wrote: post #269
notzorbo3 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employers don't care. The wrong empoyers don't care. The right ones do. My github portfolio is a means for me to determine if a potential employer is suitable for me, not the other way around. It's not a test for me to pass, it's a test for a potential employer to pass. If a recruiter brings up things listed on my LinkedIn page, I know they're not suitable for me. If they bring up things on my github, I'm reasonabl…

I don't expect my surgeon to do surgery in his spare time. Nor my plumber, dentist, gardener, or any other professional. I look at their past work history and reviews from customers and/or coworkers. I will never understand the belief that side projects are in any way necessary. I'd much rather have a well rounded individual who isn't moonlighting on other things but rather can bring his clear focused mind to the off…

> I'd much rather have a well rounded individual who isn't moonlighting on other things but rather can bring his clear focused mind to the office.

I don't think it's wrong to work on side project. Some people like or want to. Who am I to judge what they do on their free time? It might happen to overlap with their job, or it might not.

But I agree, I don't require my surgeon to do surgery in his spare time. I've worked with plenty of great engineers who wanted to leave work at work, and after 40 hours of engineering, enough was enough and spent their free time doing something that wasn't engineering. I've also worked with people who did side projects, and were equally amazing.

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