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Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

thestartupconference.com

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Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#271

Post by IanCal »

Toenex wrote: post #62
throwaway2016a wrote: post #21

I work at a startup that isn't profitable yet so our salaries are very low... - Our typical junior makes $50 - 60k - A typical mid makes $65 - 75k - Seniors (including CTO) make $90 - 110k In greater Boston. It is VERY difficult to hire at those rates. We had someone come in interviewing for a senior that I would place as a mid (generously...) and he accepted another offer for $150k. At our scale he would be making $…

For comparison, what do Google et. al. pay in the UK? I work in a small medtech in Manchester UK (like a scaled down Boston!) and simply currency adjusting these numbers would make for attractive offers here. For example I've a PhD in computer vision, 20 years building and selling medical device approved imaging software in the EU & US and have yet to be offered anything close to $100K (yes dollars) and options that…

On top of other things, it's worth noting that the exchange rate has shifted a lot over the last few years. $100k would have been about £58k in 2014, but now is about £83k.

Manchester here too, though I work remotely for a mainly London based company. I think salaries are climbing here, as more business comes but we don't have the same size talent pool as London so the demand is pushing things up.

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#272

Post by mateo411 »

rpmcmurphy wrote: post #243
bla2 wrote: post #5

Sounds like the market is telling startups that early engineers are worth more than 0.1% of stock options.

My experience has been that options have negative value. I learned this the hard way when I exercised options from a firm that has since gone sideways. I ended up with a $40,000 tax bill on stock that is worthless. Nowadays I only look at companies that can offer RSUs. Until the re-write the tax code to stop taxing people on fictional gains, options are crap, especially with companies remaining private far longer tha…

Can you write off the $40,000 loss?

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#273

Post by pm90 »

jonnathanson wrote: post #176
phil21 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you almost played this right, with one caveat. You should have taken the flight to the west coast and done the interview, with minimal (hour or two) to no prep at all. Why? First, you never know. Maybe they legitimately want your skillset - why fake up some crap you hate for a job you don't need? Second, you'll get practice taking interviews in a very low pressure situation. Worst-case they laugh at you and y…

I think the worst case is a little hairier than that. Companies keep records of their applicants and interview feedback. I'm dramatically oversimplifying, but your feedback will spell out two things in isolation: your fit for the role you applied for, and your fit for the company in general. If you do badly enough not to clear that second hurdle, you're going to have a hard time getting future interviews at the compa…

Meh, personal experience has been that demand for SE's is high enough that every company will give you another shot after a year. That is important to note though: you don't get another shot for a year.

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#274

Post by vannevar »

jasode wrote: post #78

The way the article frames the $350k competitive salary as a "problem" for startups is backwards. If you're a businessman, you build a business that works with the prevailing pricing that's out there. That includes prices for everything such as raw materials, office rent, AWS/GCP cloud costs, government taxes & fees, and yes, high programmer salaries. Complaining that your startup is "hurt" because AWS egress transfe…

This is really just another symptom of growing wealth inequality, which affects businesses just as it affects individuals. Qualified people are a finite resource, and consequently, the greater the wealth gap between the richest companies and cash-strapped startups, the smaller the share of talent that startups will be able to recruit. This in turn will take competitive pressure off the richest players, enabling them to widen the gap even further. Contrary to popular belief, there is no 'invisible hand' that acts to counter this feedback loop. Just envisioning how to build a more valuable business is no solution, because if you cannot access the capital or personnel needed to bridge the gap to profitability, your vision will not matter. As time goes on, a smaller and smaller portion of the population will be wealthy enough to bridge that gap, even as overall average wealth increases.

It's true that startups have always had to deal with better funded competitors that could pay more. But what you're not accounting for is that that gap is increasing over time, and there is a point where the lead becomes insurmountable.

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#275

Post by am8 »

holydude wrote: post #244
throwaway2016a wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also what I meant when I said... > I work at a startup that isn't profitable yet so our salaries are very low... ... was "too low... if we could afford it I'd pay three times that much" not "oh look what a great deal we are getting! Haha, suckers!"

Then I guess you are targeting the wrong pool of candidates. Do the candidates know how much can you pay (ranges?). It often happens that I as a candidate have to go through several rounds just to learn that they can't afford me.

So what Modulo is there to catch people out. If you were a front end developer do you really need this?

The fact employers will reject based on a test that is fashionable just because a few coding blogs said so doesn't mean they can't provide value. What about their past work or qualifications?

Cocky. Sounds like a clique i'd want to avoid at all costs.

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#276

Post by st3v3r »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #21

I work at a startup that isn't profitable yet so our salaries are very low... - Our typical junior makes $50 - 60k - A typical mid makes $65 - 75k - Seniors (including CTO) make $90 - 110k In greater Boston. It is VERY difficult to hire at those rates. We had someone come in interviewing for a senior that I would place as a mid (generously...) and he accepted another offer for $150k. At our scale he would be making $…

Do you advertise your pay rates with your job postings? Cause that would probably stop a lot of people you can't afford from applying, making it easier to find the people you can afford.

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#277

Post by st3v3r »

emcq wrote: post #206
ghaff wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is part of a reasonable benefits package. So you're arguing that, in addition to underpaying base comp, they also want to bypass a competitive benefits package--but that may not be obvious to young people who don't think they need insurance.

I think the parent is trying to make the case that startups by nature can't provide competitive healthcare, which hurts the economy when small business can't attract top people. It's much different than a 401k, free meals, foosball table, vacation policy, etc, in that once you experience a major health problem you are compromising your health or face prohibitive costs if you are on a mediocre healthcare plan.

Does it, though? That's like saying it hurts the economy because I can't afford a Ferrari.

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#278

Post by jboggan »

madamelic wrote: post #155
jboggan wrote: post #147

I'm leaving Google this week to start my own company again. The prospect of eventually sitting on the other side of the table and competing with these big companies used to bother me but I've realized that the personalities I'm looking for don't flourish at Google, and vice versa. Google engineers (those that stay past the first vesting event) tend to be very risk averse, even for engineers. I'm not talking about tec…

>On our last team Vegas trip I kept track of how much everyone was gambling as a proxy for their risk appetite Yikes. Gambling is just a dumb idea in general (it is literally designed to make you lose money)... unless you are gambling with other's money. ;) There is a diff between "With enough work, this risky thing could work out" and "With enough luck, this risky thing could work out if I stop while I am ahead"

Can I refer you before I leave?

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#279

Post by ghaff »

emcq wrote: post #206
ghaff wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is part of a reasonable benefits package. So you're arguing that, in addition to underpaying base comp, they also want to bypass a competitive benefits package--but that may not be obvious to young people who don't think they need insurance.

I think the parent is trying to make the case that startups by nature can't provide competitive healthcare, which hurts the economy when small business can't attract top people. It's much different than a 401k, free meals, foosball table, vacation policy, etc, in that once you experience a major health problem you are compromising your health or face prohibitive costs if you are on a mediocre healthcare plan.

They're trying to make that case. Healthcare plans (for the time being) are available outside of employers but are not inexpensive. If the company can't either provide a plan or pay employees enough to buy a plan on their own, they're simply providing inadequate compensation.

I've worked for smaller companies in the IT industry and salaries haven't been Google level but I've always had a decent benefits package, including healthcare.

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#280

Post by user5994461 »

elastic_church wrote: post #270
user5994461 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a massive difference between million dollars companies (startups) and big established companies (billion dollars in revenues). Anyway, I only work for trillion dollars companies (by some metrics). Bigger is often better.

The person that had asked to interviewing me at one of those companies liked my competence and experience in certain areas, seemingly missing that I worked for the same scale of companies that he decided to rail against

I guess that made the decision easier for you.
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