Homejoy says goodbye • Hacker News Board

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#261

Post by simoncion » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 7:15 PM UTC

curun1r wrote: post #224

markonthewall wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the lack of passion from the cleaners I doubt cleaning other people's shit is anyone's passion.

You'd be surprised. My Parents use AirBnb to rent out an in-law apartment they have at one of their houses (they each had a house prior to getting together). They're retired and they now treat it like their job, despite it only bringing in around $30k/year. I've recommended that they find a local cleaning person since I think they can find someone good who's willing to do it for the cleaning fee they charge ($50), bu…

> ...you can bet your ass she did it passionately...

Hmm. I would be more comfortable with "professionally". Frankly, I think that's the far better word to use here. In your comment, you even go on to doubt that almost anyone would have a "passion" for cleaning.

Professionals do an excellent job where an excellent job is required. Passion is not a factor in the quality of the work.

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#262

Post by larrys » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 7:18 PM UTC

jasonwilk wrote: post #129

I wanted HomeJoy to work and tried to use the service a few times. What the failure came down to: 1. The cleaners were not professionals. It felt like they were just recruiting anyone who wanted a job. You could really feel this with the lack of passion from the cleaners and the severe lack of quality cleaning. Most of the people complained and were quite rude sometimes. Cleaning is very much a skill as much as it is…

"People don't want to let just anyone into their home to clean."

And they want the same person each time whereas with drivers that doesn't matter, certainly not as much.

So one way that cleaning companies differ, and I employ cleaners for both my home and commercial properties, is that the cleaning is predictable in nature "every week, every two weeks, 3 times per month" and so on usually at a set time. [1] The only variable is the day that you "setup" with them. Rides don't follow the same pattern. With rides (also much simpler getting someone to the airport) you don't need the same driver and the time is typically not the same and nowhere near as frequent for the average user. With cleaning companies you want the same crew even in the sense that they get to know the lay of the land at your property (home or commercial). (Helps with pets as well). A host of differences.

[1] And once this time comes up it normally doesn't change and you are on autopilot.

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#263

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 7:18 PM UTC

bryanlarsen wrote: post #255

Problem A: good cleaners bypass your service, using you as a cheap referral service. Problem B: paying cleaners as contractors is legally problematic. The solution to both those problems is the same: hire your cleaners as employees. Then you can prevent them from free-lancing on the side in a competitive business. In states where a non-compete isn't enforceable (like California), I believe that you can still enforce…

[deleted]

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#264

Post by blhack » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 7:18 PM UTC

This really bums me out :( -- My girlfriend and I have been making use of homejoy a lot lately, and it has really been helping us keep up with the house.

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#265

Post by uptown » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 7:19 PM UTC

x0x0 wrote: post #257

uptown wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the larger question is how do drivers respond when their rates get dropped after a market is mature. I imagine the answer is different depending on the market.

Those above cities are, I believe, post rate drops. Also other leaked numbers have said Uber continues to grow. My guess is driver happiness doesn't impact Uber's business much; our economy seems to generate enough desperate people that they have a nearly never ending stream of people willing to drive for $5/hour (a reasonable estimate of an UberX driver's true net comp.)

Seems like much of that short-term profit would easily be negated by increased frequency of maintenance due to wear-and-tear on driver vehicles.

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#266

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 7:19 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #190

enraged_camel wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're interpreting it too literally. "Passion" in this case simply means "actually gives a fuck and tries to do a good job" as opposed to "doing the bare minimum." So yeah, you don't have to have passion for your job, or even like it, but if you're not going to try to do it well, just quit and let someone else take over.

> So yeah, you don't have to have passion for your job, or even like it, but if you're not going to try to do it well, just quit and let someone else take over. I don't disagree, but I'm in the privileged position of being an in-demand tech professional who could have another job the same day I quit my current one. The inherent problem with the "sharing economy" is that its built on using people (primary) who are eco…

[deleted]

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#267

Post by Fomite » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 7:21 PM UTC

markonthewall wrote: post #152

jasonwilk wrote: post #129

I wanted HomeJoy to work and tried to use the service a few times. What the failure came down to: 1. The cleaners were not professionals. It felt like they were just recruiting anyone who wanted a job. You could really feel this with the lack of passion from the cleaners and the severe lack of quality cleaning. Most of the people complained and were quite rude sometimes. Cleaning is very much a skill as much as it is…

> the lack of passion from the cleaners I doubt cleaning other people's shit is anyone's passion.

"Taking pride in what I do, and doing it well" is a kind of passion that transcends "Is this the best job ever?" and one I've definitely seen cleaners and other people with "bad" jobs care deeply about.

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#268

Post by jclune » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 7:21 PM UTC

I run a company similar to HomeJoy in Japan, and I disagree with most comments here.

1. Those who claim cleaning is not a "skilled job" should get off their keyboard, spend a day cleaning their moms house, and get back to me when they learn they are 3X slower than a pro and destroyed something with bleach-based spray.

2. It feels like nobody here actually read Adora Cheung's quotes about multiple lawsuits coinciding with investment timing. That is obviously the reason they shut the doors.

3. Those who claim flaws in matching business model are to blame are making non-quantitative assumptions. Just ask yourself, how high of a percentage of users sharing direct phone # would cause a growing company to collapse? Also the supply side risks losing stable income or insurance coverage.

I do quite a number of things much differently than HomeJoy, and quality control being a major one. There are certainly a lot of challenges and operational complexity to keep my team innovating. Japan has the highest customer service standard in the world (and hardest to satisfy customers), which is great for building a more solid foundation. If any hackers are leaving HomeJoy and want to move to Tokyo, I'm hiring!

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#269

Post by pbreit » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 7:23 PM UTC

jasonwilk wrote: post #129

I wanted HomeJoy to work and tried to use the service a few times. What the failure came down to: 1. The cleaners were not professionals. It felt like they were just recruiting anyone who wanted a job. You could really feel this with the lack of passion from the cleaners and the severe lack of quality cleaning. Most of the people complained and were quite rude sometimes. Cleaning is very much a skill as much as it is…

Good points. I came to write 1) that they were trying to turn a match-making business into a transactional business (apparently unsuccessfully) and 2) that the labor problems sound more like an excuse for what was likely just a poorly run business.

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#270

Post by silverlake » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 7:25 PM UTC

_sentient wrote: post #78

justinzollars wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly their problem. I wonder if LawnLove will have the same problem?

Founder of Lawn Love here. We think a lot about disintermediation risk. We do a number of things to prevent it, but it ultimately comes down to providing enough value to the supply side of your market. If you build a product that drives real, ongoing value for your service pros, they will be much less incentivised to cut you out of the transaction. The same is true for the demand side. Also, lawn care has a reduced r…

Do you schedule the customers close by to minimize travel time for your lawn care guys? I know cleaners that drive across town to jobs, effectively losing money while they're stuck in traffic. I don't know if Homejoy did that.

To incentivize that, you could offer discounts for neighbors who use the service together. If Homejoy had a bunch of apartments in one location, then cleaners would make more money per day.