Homejoy says goodbye • Hacker News Board

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#181

Post by ChuckMcM » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 6:29 PM UTC

And the recode story (http://recode.net/2015/07/17/cleaning-services-startup-homej...) which has a bit more clarity. Trying to fund raise a sharing economy business just after Uber gets a bad court decision on the employee/contractor question is hard. It is almost like having your company go back to being a 'seed round' level risk for some investors.

It also lends credibility to the 'not a bubble' discussions if stage C investors are showing restraint but that is a different discussion.

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#182

Post by nodesocket » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 6:29 PM UTC

I literally just had my place cleaned yesterday by HomeJoy. I have a small studio apartment in SF, and it cost $110 total. While it was expensive, the cleaner actually did a really great job, though it was a bit difficult communicating (she is Chineese, and not fluent in English).

I honestly never saw this coming, as I assumed HomeJoy was doing awesome. It will be interesting to see how Exec/Handy handle things moving forward.

The startup game is tough!

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#183

Post by enraged_camel » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 6:29 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #168

joslin01 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as much as I doubt checking me out in a check-out line is anyone's idea of "passion", but it's still rude and unprofessional to not show me courtesy. You don't get a moral blank-check just because you don't like your job.

> You don't get a moral blank-check just because you don't like your job. Whether someone can "feel" your passion about a job isn't about morality. I can do my job well, even if I feel its the equivalent of shoveling horse shit, and have zero passion for it. Whether someone is doing their job well is never a moral question. If someone didn't do the job you agreed to, its contractual; don't pay or pay a reduced rate b…

You're interpreting it too literally. "Passion" in this case simply means "actually gives a fuck and tries to do a good job" as opposed to "doing the bare minimum."

So yeah, you don't have to have passion for your job, or even like it, but if you're not going to try to do it well, just quit and let someone else take over.

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#184

Post by Skrypt » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 6:29 PM UTC

As happy customers & friends of the company I'm sad to hear this news today. I wish everyone on the team all the best.

I'm curious to one day read a post mortem on the company, and especially about these last few months.

Our last appointment is scheduled for Monday.

Thank you Homejoy.

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#185

Post by brazzledazzle » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 6:30 PM UTC

jonlucc wrote: post #20

fraXis wrote: post #7

I used Homejoy and I liked it's ease of use. But after the cleaning lady they sent me was done, she offered me her direct phone # and told me I could contact her directly for any future cleaning needs. I always wondered how this business model was going to work if Homejoy's contractors could just give out their phone # at the end of their first service and the customer could just contact them directly for any future…

I would wager that the answer is to provide some other value to the contractors, but I have no idea what that could be.

Easy recurring payments, payment processing, scheduling, job details (customer A gets the whole 9 yards, customer B only needs X, Y and Z), easy customer communication, etc. But I'm not a cleaner so I have no idea if those are worth it.

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#186

Post by CrackpotGonzo » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 6:30 PM UTC

callmeed wrote: post #133

So Forbes named Homejoy one of the hottest startups of 2013 (and they make a 30 under 30 list). They raise money from top-tier VCs and angels. Adora does quite a bit of speaking (it seems) on growth, regional expansion, and startup inspiration. They expanded to 30+ markets. But they were really just selling cleaning services for below cost–on the backs of 1099 workers. It's a worse model than Groupon and I can't fath…

Exactly this. I always felt that this was just another doomed startup that couldn't possibly survive. Curious how we'll revise our views on the company and Adora.

I guess this is the playbook, right? Doesn't matter if you build a sustainable company or not. As long as you raise crazy amounts of VC $ you're considered a success.

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#187

Post by aestetix » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 6:31 PM UTC

moommooo wrote: post #154

aestetix wrote: post #11

If your company cannot afford to stay in the black with real employees (as opposed to contractors), you need to re-evaluate your business model. Edit: and the downvotes are rolling in! Would anyone who has downvoted this comment care to share why?

The labor force participation rate is at its lowest level in 40 years. When companies like Homejoy come in and make it easy for people to pick up gig work, they are making real and substantial contributions to human welfare.

That's a much more complex issue, which involves how many people simply give up trying to find work after six months or so, as well as companies replacing employees with automated robots and such. I would be much more in favor of Homejoy using contractors if they also allowed them to become a full time employee if they desired to, after meeting some requirement (like working there for 3 months).

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#188

Post by cookiecaper » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 6:32 PM UTC

nikolaj wrote: post #176

product50 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have it wrong here. The fact that HomeJoy was actually playing in a market which required skill labor was responsible for their downfall. Think about it - if there is an HomeJoy operator who's actually good and did her job very well (and thus is skilled), next time I will want to deal with her directly (to save on cost) and not deal with HomeJoy at all. I certainly did this. In fact, many HomeJoy operator…

I see this a bit differently. Uber and AirBnB caters to immediate needs for a short term engagement, so the dispatching capabilities are the real value (find me someone who can do X right now). Homejoy is dispatching for a long term relationship, so it has a hard time staying engaged in the relationship as it progresses. I think the skill is less important than the duration of the engagement for a dispatching service…

Upwork/oDesk connects people with long-term providers and are more or less able to avoid disintermediation by providing services that the providers want to take advantage of, like time tracking, payment processing, and tax documents. Companies like HomeJoy need to figure out what services their providers really crave and make those contingent upon using their platform. Maybe there isn't anything lacking like that in the home cleaning business.

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#189

Post by elif » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 6:33 PM UTC

enjo wrote: post #108

MatthewMcDonald wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recurring business is really tough when you're effective just introducing customers to other businesses. Thumbtack handles this by not even addressing the recurring aspect, and focusing on getting good introductions. Recurring revenue is great, but how does a matchmaking service continue to provide value once a good fit had been found?

Just to elaborate: Thumbtack also services a very wide range of verticals, which allows them to succeed purely as a matchmaker. It's an inherent flaw in what folks like Homejoy were doing (although they had aspirations of a larger vertical focus). I need thumbtack like 3 or 4 times a year. I need Homejoy once ever.

It never occurred to me to try hiring my HJ cleaner directly... If i have to travel and reschedule, i can just push a button on my phone and reschedule. I never have to worry about writing checks or tipping (thinking about it in hindsight.. does that make me a jerk?). The time I had an issue, their support made the experience "magical"

Also if a cleaner ever started to get lazy and cut corners, i have the option to just chose another one... that gives me a lot of influential power even if i never have to use it.

Those benefits are what made the service worthwhile for me... If I wanted to find a cleaner at the lowest rate and handle all the overhead myself i could just look on craigslist...

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#190

Post by toomuchtodo » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 6:33 PM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #183

toomuchtodo wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't get a moral blank-check just because you don't like your job. Whether someone can "feel" your passion about a job isn't about morality. I can do my job well, even if I feel its the equivalent of shoveling horse shit, and have zero passion for it. Whether someone is doing their job well is never a moral question. If someone didn't do the job you agreed to, its contractual; don't pay or pay a reduced rate b…

You're interpreting it too literally. "Passion" in this case simply means "actually gives a fuck and tries to do a good job" as opposed to "doing the bare minimum." So yeah, you don't have to have passion for your job, or even like it, but if you're not going to try to do it well, just quit and let someone else take over.

> So yeah, you don't have to have passion for your job, or even like it, but if you're not going to try to do it well, just quit and let someone else take over.

I don't disagree, but I'm in the privileged position of being an in-demand tech professional who could have another job the same day I quit my current one.

The inherent problem with the "sharing economy" is that its built on using people (primary) who are economically disadvantaged who need the job (I concede that someone people who drive for Uber don't require the job, but do it do to the flexible schedule or extra income it provides). Its hard to always do a shitty job well, constantly.