Have young people in Japan stopped having sex? • Hacker News Board

Re: Have young people in Japan stopped having sex?

#261

Post by seanmcdirmid » Sun, Oct 20, 2013, 10:09 PM UTC

return0 wrote: post #259

nkhodyunya wrote: post #106

Sex nowadays became a redundant, obsolete, risky, overcomplicated act which you can totally avoid with the help of good porn. So why bother with searching partner, if you can have all of sex benefits alone, but with porn or good imagination.

Perhaps you are a japanese? Anyway, how is sex risky and overcomplicated (unless sharp objects, diseases and coordinated acrobatics are involved)? Sex should be simple fun. Maybe you refer to dating or the search for a partner. If today's gay hookup apps are any indicator, straight hookups will become instant gratification at the tap of a button, soon. We 're not there yet because of cultural hangups.

WhatsApp, WeChat are already there I think.

Re: Have young people in Japan stopped having sex?

#262

Post by biafra » Sun, Oct 20, 2013, 11:21 PM UTC

speeder wrote: post #234

msandford wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if they ACTUALLY prefer careers or if they THINK they do and thus never try. Remember that it's at least an 18 year commitment (probably longer) so that if you've got any doubts it's really easy to talk yourself out of it. Let me be clear: I'm not suggesting that women have any societal obligations. But given that we're all here today we can infer historically that women (as a whole) have liked having childr…

This is not fully clear yet, as we need more.20 years or so in this situation to be sure, but seemly women are being convinced that they want careers, and they regret it later... Right now the numbers of 50 year old childless women due to feminism is still low, but many of those few are drifting to be against feminism.instead and attempt to convince younger women to not repeat their mistakes. Mostly because when you…

Since when does feminism promote childlessness?

It promotes the emancipation of women. When men care about children as much, there is no problem in having kids and a career for women (and men).

Re: Have young people in Japan stopped having sex?

#263

Post by Futurebot » Sun, Oct 20, 2013, 11:28 PM UTC

When we talk about the medium or long term, we should also start to consider the impact of life-extension, and more importantly, youth preservation technologies; the entire issue of "young supporting the old" disppears if people stop aging. There is virtually no government support for research to support this, even though we should consider it one of the most important issues in history (and many diseases simply a subset of the "disease" of aging.) Perhaps trends like the ones discussed in the article will get governments thinking about it (and having Google investing in this area is a nice boost.)

Re: Have young people in Japan stopped having sex?

#264

Post by msandford » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 12:24 AM UTC

biafra wrote: post #262

speeder wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not fully clear yet, as we need more.20 years or so in this situation to be sure, but seemly women are being convinced that they want careers, and they regret it later... Right now the numbers of 50 year old childless women due to feminism is still low, but many of those few are drifting to be against feminism.instead and attempt to convince younger women to not repeat their mistakes. Mostly because when you…

Since when does feminism promote childlessness? It promotes the emancipation of women. When men care about children as much, there is no problem in having kids and a career for women (and men).

Feminism is about empowerment and choices. Being empowered to choose not to get married and have kids as I read it, considering that in the Western world that was "a woman's role" for probably centuries. At least as long as we've had patriarchy, which is quite a while.

Once women have the freedom to choose not to get married, have kids, etc it seems likely that some choose not to and thus the rise of feminism is roughly correlated with a decline in birthrates.

I've tidied this up in a nice little causal package but it's quite likely not so clear cut. But it certainly does seem that way at a glance. Which is why the notion gets such good traction amongst some.

Re: Have young people in Japan stopped having sex?

#265

Post by sanxiyn » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 12:28 AM UTC

kalleboo wrote: post #135

steven2012 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it stupid? Obviously they don't mean every single Japanese young person hasn't stopped having sex. What the author means is that as a trend, they've stopped having sex, as evidenced by the declining population, the lack of young people in relationships, etc. From the data they cited from the surveys, it seems pretty incontrovertible that there is some sort of problem, despite your own personal anecdotes.

Neither "declining population" nor "lack of young people in relationships" indicates people not having sex. It only indicates people not wanting families or kids.

Indeed, people not having procreative sex would be more correct.

Re: Have young people in Japan stopped having sex?

#266

Post by speeder » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 2:45 AM UTC

biafra wrote: post #262

speeder wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not fully clear yet, as we need more.20 years or so in this situation to be sure, but seemly women are being convinced that they want careers, and they regret it later... Right now the numbers of 50 year old childless women due to feminism is still low, but many of those few are drifting to be against feminism.instead and attempt to convince younger women to not repeat their mistakes. Mostly because when you…

Since when does feminism promote childlessness? It promotes the emancipation of women. When men care about children as much, there is no problem in having kids and a career for women (and men).

Example of Feminism mixed with childlessness:

The UN report on gender equality in economy, writes explictly that countries where women have fertility of less than 3 is good, because research shows that women with high education has few kids, and thus it concludes that a country with not much kids mean that country has educated women, that from the point of the view of the report is a good thing.

Re: Have young people in Japan stopped having sex?

#267

Post by n1ghtm4n » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 3:08 AM UTC

kalleboo wrote: post #195

n1ghtm4n wrote: post #158

Why has no one brought up overcrowding in Japan? You don't think that's going to affect the birth rate? http://inventorspot.com/articles/six_startling_scenes_overcr...

Meanwhile the Japanese countryside is depopulating at an amazing rate, leaving ghost towns in their wake, with elementary schools built for 700 students housing 2.

That's not necessarily a bad thing! People move to cities to find a better life, and they usually find it. That's great unless you think a life of rural poverty is some kind of noble virtue.

The global population is 7.1 billion and rising fast. We should all cheer when we hear these statistics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urbanization#Environmental_eff...

Re: Have young people in Japan stopped having sex?

#268

Post by einhverfr » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 4:42 AM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #233

einhverfr wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

John Medaille has written extensively on the subject. His book "Towards a Truly Free Market" is worth reading. A lot of it boils down to the critiques of market capitalism by Hilaire Belloc and Gilbert Chesterton and how these have largely continued within the conservative Catholic movement, as well as parts of the Orthodox and conservative Protestant communities as well. I am a Heathen and I worship Odin, Thorr, and…

Distributism is an interesting movement, but it's incredibly minor and is very Catholic. It's social conservative but very different from the mainstream social conservatism in the U.S.

Strangely I am a Neopagan and was introduced to it by a Russian Orthodox priest. It is moving outside the strict domains of Catholicism. Most of those on /r/distributism on Reddit are not Catholics either.

Re: Have young people in Japan stopped having sex?

#269

Post by einhverfr » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 4:48 AM UTC

muraiki wrote: post #166

einhverfr wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

John Medaille has written extensively on the subject. His book "Towards a Truly Free Market" is worth reading. A lot of it boils down to the critiques of market capitalism by Hilaire Belloc and Gilbert Chesterton and how these have largely continued within the conservative Catholic movement, as well as parts of the Orthodox and conservative Protestant communities as well. I am a Heathen and I worship Odin, Thorr, and…

People who want to know a bit more about the particulars of this economic thought should check out Distributivism. While I don't know much about it, it seems like the idea of reconciling private property ownership with the spread of the means of production to all people goes well with open source / maker movement ideas. "According to distributists, property ownership is a fundamental right and the means of production…

Also I wrote a blog piece(http://ledgersmbdev.blogspot.com/2013/04/a-distributist-view...) about Distributism and open source, which comes around to favoring BSD-style licenses on a work-ownership theory. The piece can be an introduction to Distributist theory for open source developers as well as an introduction to open source for Distributists.

Re: Have young people in Japan stopped having sex?

#270

Post by nostrademons » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 7:38 AM UTC

speeder wrote: post #223

msandford wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people are looking at the utter destruction of freedom that raising a family is today, and choosing not to. It's not just the price of real estate, it's inflation too. Roll into that the lack of job security and negative real interest rates and it's no wonder people can't think about a future. One of the most basic needs when planning for a future is the prospect that the future will be better than the past.…

You people are forgetting feminism. It has lots to do with it. Brazil for example has PLENTY of space and cheap places to live (unless you want to live in São Paulo... like where I am now, the prices here ARE fucked up) Yet marriages are going down to the point of scare the government too. The reason for it is simple (there has been lots of research, not only here, but on other countries with declining births to dang…

I'm pretty skeptical of your claim that the point of marriage historically was to force women to stay in the marriage. Evolutionary sociobiology holds the opposite: that marriage evolved to get men to stick around. A woman already has an evolutionary incentive to provide for her offspring: she's invested far more in them (having provided the egg and nurtured them inside her for 9 months) than her partner has. A man's evolutionary incentive is to spread his seed across more women, because he can have many children while his wife can only have one per year. But since society benefits from not having all the violence and uncertainty that results from men porking each others' wives and being unsure whether the children they were raising were actually their own children, marriage evolved.

If your "70% of no-fault divorces were started by women" statistic holds true, it could be because the greater economic power wielded by men made them pretty shitty husbands, and so when the opportunity arose, their wives divorced them.