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Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

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Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#261

Post by bmelton »

saalweachter wrote: post #258
bmelton wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe there are any laws against shooting federal agents actually, though I could well be wrong, but in the absence of a verifiable warrant, there's no guarantee that they are federal agents. Even if they are federal agents, that doesn't give them any right to enter your home without your consent, absent a warrant. I don't otherwise disagree with the synopsis you've put forth, I'm just saying that our right…

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1114 Fun fact: Timothy McVeigh was convicted of the murder of 8 federal agents who were in the Federal Building. They didn't bother to charge him with the other 160 counts of murder, because those weren't federal crimes.

Thanks for the correction, however it should also be noted that it uses the term 'murder', which by definition is different from homicide in that murder is unlawful, where homicide is not necessarily.

If I kill someone attacking me, I have committed homicide, but not necessarily murder. If I kill someone ala McVeigh, I have murdered them.

Since it is a federal charge, it's very likely that the 'intent' would be determined in a federal court, which does exist outside of state jurisdiction and is bound to uphold federal laws, but it isn't quite open and shut.

Still, your point stands, which is to say that he's almost certainly screwed.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#262

Post by mindcrime »

Retric wrote: post #28
dsego wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments have to be kept in check. They're granted great power and people who have power tend to abuse it. My understanding is that the founding fathers were realists and recognised this very early on.

Having guns does little to hold government in chech. A well educated, well informed, and politically active populace on the other hand is a strait jacket. Which is why free assembly and free speech are so important.

Even better: A well educated, well informed, and politically active populace, with guns.

These things aren't mutually exclusive, ya know...

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#263

Post by rhizome »

rayiner wrote: post #180
talmand wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to use the slippery slope argument but once you allow police to enter a residence with evidence as simple as something they might have heard through the door then there's no need to ever worry over warrants at all. How do you even prove what they heard or if they heard something in the first place? If the officer witnesses someone break into the residence then sure, but just hearing something? That doesn't pas…

> I hate to use the slippery slope argument Slippery slope reasoning is completely incompatible with 4th amendment interpretation, because the 4th amendment is all about what is "reasonable" (or rather, what is "unreasonable.") It's about compromising the legitimate needs of the police with the legitimate privacy interests of the people. You can't make compromises when your retort to everything becomes: "but if we ke…

Consider that the legal definition of "legitimate" is what's changed.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#265

Post by buo »

brown9-2 wrote: post #126
buo wrote: post #82

An American that had to seek asylum from the US government was Bobby Fischer, one of the best chess players in history. His offense: playing a chess match against Boris Spassky in Yugoslavia (he also owed taxes). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Fischer#1992_Spassky_rema...

I think you left out the part where he defiantly broke the law at the time against economic activities in Yugoslavia.

Sorry -- I didn't mean to be unclear about that. The point I wanted to make is that, while he violated a UN embargo, it was just a chess match, and nevertheless he was relentlessly persecuted and had to seek asylum.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#266

Post by [deleted] »

brown9-2 wrote: post #126
buo wrote: post #82

An American that had to seek asylum from the US government was Bobby Fischer, one of the best chess players in history. His offense: playing a chess match against Boris Spassky in Yugoslavia (he also owed taxes). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Fischer#1992_Spassky_rema...

I think you left out the part where he defiantly broke the law at the time against economic activities in Yugoslavia.

[deleted]

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#267

Post by [deleted] »

brown9-2 wrote: post #126
buo wrote: post #82

An American that had to seek asylum from the US government was Bobby Fischer, one of the best chess players in history. His offense: playing a chess match against Boris Spassky in Yugoslavia (he also owed taxes). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Fischer#1992_Spassky_rema...

I think you left out the part where he defiantly broke the law at the time against economic activities in Yugoslavia.

[deleted]

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#268

Post by antoko »

mindcrime wrote: post #251
randomsearch wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. But, how does owning a gun provide protection against the US military?

But, how does owning a gun provide protection against the US military? I don't understand why people keep asking this question, and variations of it, or offering up the argument "the 2A is useless for allowing rebellion since you can't defeat the US military". Bands of rebels armed with mostly light weapons have caused superpowers all sorts of issues: See Afghanistan, from the Soviet era through today. And if a full…

If you've got the popular support you're eluding to you'd be fine with baseball bats and molotov cocktails. You'd also be fine to steal the guns and other weapons of military/police forces as you have victorious encounters. You wouldn't actually need the guns in the first place.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#269

Post by eli_gottlieb »

jvictor118 wrote: post #245
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, American law is completely corrupt. Who gives a damn about it? What they've done to Bradley Manning isn't right, at all.

Bradley Manning was a member of the Armed Forces who released classified information to the public. What planet are you living on that his prosecution is unwarranted?

What planning are you living on where physical and psychological torture is a warranted response to breaking military law?

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#270

Post by spiritplumber »

jvictor118 wrote: post #227
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>After all, it's not like Carrie from Homeland is chillin' at the CIA reading my texts with my girlfriend. They have neither time nor inclination for that. When you get accused of a federal crime and they use the handful of terabytes of all your data against you, what then? How can you possibly defend yourself against an entity with unlimited power and funding. Check out how much it costs to defend yourself from a fe…

See the comment below for example of a NYC terrorist plot foiled by PRISM. And by the way -- why would I be accused of a FEDERAL CRIME? I didn't do anything wrong. If anything, _their collection of my data could be used to exonerate me_. Data is a two way street. It can both prove or disprove your guilt. Be real. You and I both know that when it comes to national security, we do what we have to do. That doesn't mean…

Is your name Harry Tuttle?
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