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Prosecutor as bully

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Re: Prosecutor as bully

#261

Post by jacquesm »

GabrielF00 wrote: post #222
daniel-cussen wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Aaron had the option of going to trial. It was his constitutional right. He chose to kill himself instead. It was not a real option. He had run out of money for an expensive, complex case. He was sure to lose.

Robert Morris created the first worm on the Internet and was the first person prosecuted under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. He was convicted and sentenced to probation. He's now a tenured MIT professor and was a co-founder of Y Combinator. For someone of Aaron's talent and reputation there is no reason that he could not have gotten past a felony conviction and lived a successful life. I can only interpret Lessig…

> but it doesn't seem unreasonable that Aaron would have been able to get a deal with a relatively light sentence

Being sentenced and getting a record for doing something you feel is right is not something everybody takes equally lightly. Personally I couldn't care less but I can see how someone with stronger principles would react much stronger to this.

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#262

Post by mscarborough »

darkarmani wrote: post #235
mscarborough wrote: post #233

Nobody killed Aaron Swartz except Aaron Swartz. Not the prosecutor, nor the legal system, nor the copyright system. Completely useless as they all are. It's absolutely horrible how this happened and that we lost such a light in the web community. But stop the myth making and pretending that you cared the whole time, when really nobody did.

Threatened with 35 years of jail time...

Yes, it was threatened. Not convicted or sentenced. Not held up on appeal, much less tested in court in the first place.

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#263

Post by neltnerb »

agwa wrote: post #18

From the article: For in the 18 months of negotiations, that was what he was not willing to accept, and so that was the reason he was facing a million dollar trial in April — his wealth bled dry, yet unable to appeal openly to us for the financial help he needed to fund his defense, at least without risking the ire of a district court judge. Remember, this was on HN just a week ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?…

Yes, I agree with this, having been the subject of unreasonable scrutiny in the past myself and having had friends who have similarly been abused by the "justice" system.

This kind of thing is far too common. The prosecution may be allowed to presume guilt, fine. But the law should prevent an overzealous prosecutor from rendering moot the 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th amendments (not that I'm a constitutional scholar, just applying the "common sense" rule here).

Seizing assets is wrong in 99% of cases, and eliminates the right to mount an effective defense. It is morally bankrupt.

"Making an example" of someone is complete garbage. That is not justice, it is cruel and unusual punishment. It seems to more often be used by DA's with political aspirations than for legitimately egregious crimes.

This is why I vote against anyone who lists "tough on crime" as a credential. It's not. "Fair on crime" is a virtue, "tough on crime" is bullying and an abrogation of justice. Citizens should have an expectation that punishments for doing something wrong will suit the offense. Anything otherwise is a violation of the 8th amendment.

If there is doubt over whether or not an action is even a crime, a DA should be using their discretion to NOT prosecute. When the "victims" of a "crime" don't even want to press charges, you have to question the motives of a DA that pursues the case anyway.

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#264

Post by neltnerb »

rprasad wrote: post #187
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's far better to have a government of laws and not a government of men Who do you think decided to tell JSTOR to shove it and prosecute him anyway under a federal computer crimes act? All prosecution is political and white collar crimes doubly so. Men decide to be vindictive, men decide which laws, and the men who prosecute knowing it takes millions of dollars to successful defend from a false accusation from the…

All prosecution is political and white collar crimes doubly so. No, all laws are political. Enforcement of the law, especiallly at the federal level, is apolitical. White collar crimes are not special; indeed, white collar crimes are by far the worst types of crimes because they strike directly at the foundation of the system itself (i.e., trust). There's no politically neutral AI calling the shots. Exactly. Letting…

No, no, no. The point of an AG is to act as a first line to determine which cases are worth pursuing and which are not. They absolutely are granted and should exercise frequently the right to not prosecute!

I have had several friends prosecuted for trumped up nonsense that should have been slap-on-the-wrist misdemeanors at the most.

I would prefer to see an AG exercise their privilege to not prosecute in cases where, even assuming the facts in the complaint are true, it is unclear that a crime has been committed. Particularly where there is no individual who has been harmed.

"Tough on Crime" is a messed up way to operate a justice system. "Fair on Crime" should be the standard we hold our officials to.

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#265

Post by [deleted] »

genwin wrote: post #78
rprasad wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, you know, you could just call your local Congressperson and complain. This is far more likely to have a direct impact on her job (performance of, or continued employment) than some random internet "naming and shaming." It is also far more likely to bring about the structural changes necessary to prevent this from happening again. ...as they have disabled the voice of the people by routing around jury trials. Aaro…

> Or, you know, you could just call your local Congressperson and complain. Almost certainly zero impact for this. Easily ignored. The prosecutor in this case, however, probably could not easily ignore her friends and family dumping her.

[deleted]

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#266

Post by dvnlgls »

lancefisher wrote: post #146
btilly wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My suggestion, start a whitehouse petition. If that gets to 25k people, the whitehouse will respond. If Reddit gets involved, 25k people is quite doable. The wording of the petition should be as strong as possible. I'm off with my children now, but if I get back tonight and I see a decent petition on this, I will definitely sign it. Edit: D'oh, the petition has already been written. I just had to sign it.

Here's a link: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/remove-united-stat... And a second petition to pardon Aaron: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/posthumously-pardo...

pardon my ignorance, should one be a US citizen to sign this petition or is it open to anybody?

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#267

Post by dvnlgls »

wissler wrote: post #65
agwa wrote: post #18

From the article: For in the 18 months of negotiations, that was what he was not willing to accept, and so that was the reason he was facing a million dollar trial in April — his wealth bled dry, yet unable to appeal openly to us for the financial help he needed to fund his defense, at least without risking the ire of a district court judge. Remember, this was on HN just a week ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?…

None of these sorts of problems will ever get fixed unless society decides to get back to basics and back to reason and principles. I don't see any evidence of that happening. The problem isn't with government per se, it's with the typical intellectual.

I'm reminded of a saying, "the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must." Well, "..what they must" is a strong phrase, but you get the idea. The general population isn't bothered about these kind of issues. The best they can do, if they notice an issue, is post their views on internet or express some strong views to their friends. If we need to clean shit, we need to go to the top and change it. Sadly I too don't see this happen anytime soon.

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#268

Post by kko »

temphn wrote: post #46
agwa wrote: post #18

From the article: For in the 18 months of negotiations, that was what he was not willing to accept, and so that was the reason he was facing a million dollar trial in April — his wealth bled dry, yet unable to appeal openly to us for the financial help he needed to fund his defense, at least without risking the ire of a district court judge. Remember, this was on HN just a week ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?…

Naming and shaming Carmen M. Ortiz for destroying the life of a young man is exactly what is necessary. She brought 13 felony counts against him for downloading articles that should be freely available, after JSTOR itself had dropped the charges. Destroying her career and seeing her fired in disgrace will send a message to all other overzealous prosecutors, in the same way that she surely thought her prosecution of S…

I really can't beleive how naive such people like Mrs. Ortiz are... Beleiving in fighting for something like a greater good seems to make people pretty ruthless. I really cried for the internet community loosing one of the people who really felt responsable for fighting for the net's freemdom.

I hope some time justice will also spread in judiciary...

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#269

Post by msutherl »

jlgreco wrote: post #148
msutherl wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to say this, but 4chan will take care of this and they will be effective.

That's a crapshoot. Either they will get the local media to care about it for a day or two, then fizzle, or they will get the local pizza place really pissed off, or someone will do something drastic and a bunch more arrests will start being made. Getting 4chan to apply the right amount of pressure to the right place seems to be like trying to get an apathetic redneck to remove a tree stump for you. Chances are he's…

MIT.edu is down. Let's see what comes next.

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#270

Post by thedamnedfool »

temphn wrote: post #46
agwa wrote: post #18

From the article: For in the 18 months of negotiations, that was what he was not willing to accept, and so that was the reason he was facing a million dollar trial in April — his wealth bled dry, yet unable to appeal openly to us for the financial help he needed to fund his defense, at least without risking the ire of a district court judge. Remember, this was on HN just a week ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?…

Naming and shaming Carmen M. Ortiz for destroying the life of a young man is exactly what is necessary. She brought 13 felony counts against him for downloading articles that should be freely available, after JSTOR itself had dropped the charges. Destroying her career and seeing her fired in disgrace will send a message to all other overzealous prosecutors, in the same way that she surely thought her prosecution of S…

Regarding Mr. Aaron Swartz, one hopes the Massachusetts Attorney's heavy handed actions will be the subject of a wider broadcast. Certainly, the attention afforded to Mr. Swartz by the DOJ (mind you, MIT long since has lost interest in the case) should now be focused, in the court of public opinion, towards the Honorable Carmen Ortiz and the choice to pursue this case, using extreme measures, leading to answers from a specific inquiry...namely: "Why? Why pursue an individual so harshly?" Insufficient answers from her or her office (apparently she's considering a run for Governor) should immediately result in her receiving administrative action, and the consideration for removal from office and disbarment.
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