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AI doesn't generate working products, that's still your job

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Re: AI doesn't generate working products, that's still your job

#261

Post by twister2920 »

zulban wrote: post #217
ThePhysicist wrote: post #46

I'm about to throw away multiple months of LLM generated code for one of my side projects. I was really careful writing design specs and it wasn't even a new code base the LLM worked on, but still after several months of AI changes I feel my code degraded more and more into a subtle mess. Hard to explain, each individual change looked good and logical and on the surface the codebase looks fine, but looking at the who…

It's hard to take criticism like this seriously when you didn't say the model you used. It's like someone complaining about a car's performance but they leave out the brand and year. If you don't think that's relevant I just can't take you seriously.

it's hard to take this stock dismissal seriously when it's been repeated ad nauseum, for years, every time a new generation is released.

Re: AI doesn't generate working products, that's still your job

#262

Post by twister2920 »

mexicocitinluez wrote: post #156
jaccola wrote: post #24

The test is simple: have we seen great new products or improvements in the products we use over the past 12,24,36 months? The only great new product I’ve used is my LLM of choice, and those labs seem to be hiring more humans than ever. Maybe it’s true that Claude only just got good enough and that 12 months from now our day to day lives will be way better thanks to LLM-driven product improvements/breakthroughs. My be…

> have we seen great new products or improvements in the products we use over the past 12,24,36 months This sentiment drives me nuts. I'm on a handful of software dev subreddits and the amount of new products popping up has tripled since these tools became available. I also don't understand how you'd expect to measure this. Is there some single list of all software that's been released that annotates whether AI was u…

> I'm on a handful of software dev subreddits and the amount of new products popping up has tripled since these tools became available.

> I also don't understand how you'd expect to measure this

I'm confused, are we accepting anecdata or no?

Re: AI doesn't generate working products, that's still your job

#263

Post by mexicocitinluez »

twister2920 wrote: post #262
mexicocitinluez wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> have we seen great new products or improvements in the products we use over the past 12,24,36 months This sentiment drives me nuts. I'm on a handful of software dev subreddits and the amount of new products popping up has tripled since these tools became available. I also don't understand how you'd expect to measure this. Is there some single list of all software that's been released that annotates whether AI was u…

> I'm on a handful of software dev subreddits and the amount of new products popping up has tripled since these tools became available. > I also don't understand how you'd expect to measure this I'm confused, are we accepting anecdata or no?

You can't prove a negative like that. So whether it's anecdotal or not is irrelevant.

Re: AI doesn't generate working products, that's still your job

#264

Post by twister2920 »

brabel wrote: post #230
bakugo wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The whole thing will come crumbling down any minute It is crumbling down as we speak. There's more software being pumped out than ever, but it's also buggier, more bloated, and just generally worse than ever. A few days ago I had to revert to an older version of an open source project I use regularly, because the author turned full vibe coder and has pushed hundreds of AI generated commits in just a few weeks, at l…

> also buggier, more bloated, and just generally worse than ever. Citation needed. I have seen enormous improvements in bug fixes across our projects and many other companies (one HN headline says Google fixed more bugs in July than in previous 2 years). I would’ve expected even more given how easy it is to fix things now. LLMs can understand code better than anyone I’ve met, judging by their power to explain somethi…

> Citation needed.

that's not where the burden of proof lies buddy. you prove to us where AI has caused a spike in quality, functioning software

Re: AI doesn't generate working products, that's still your job

#265

Post by twister2920 »

Bootvis wrote: post #116
IAmGraydon wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. What product and/or project have you successfully launched with it?

I have solo built this: https://github.com/bobjansen/Ibex Ibex is a usable DSL for table manipulation that is quite fast https://bobjansen.github.io/Ibex/benchmarks.html I'm still managing to add more features, such as multithreading. The LLM's do make mistakes but they have gotten better and they tend to self correct these days. I'm also comparing results to mature products such as Polars and DuckDB and the results…

how many users do you have?

Re: AI doesn't generate working products, that's still your job

#266

Post by mexicocitinluez »

flyinglizard wrote: post #185
mexicocitinluez wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> have we seen great new products or improvements in the products we use over the past 12,24,36 months This sentiment drives me nuts. I'm on a handful of software dev subreddits and the amount of new products popping up has tripled since these tools became available. I also don't understand how you'd expect to measure this. Is there some single list of all software that's been released that annotates whether AI was u…

Products, yes, because the barrier to making a product had fallen off a cliff (both in developing the software and the marketing/sales fluff around it). But are those products converting to business results? Are those quality products someone will pay for? In other words, is anyone using these products or is that becoming like the spammy App Stores with tons of low effort stuff?

> But are those products converting to business results? Are those quality products someone will pay for?

Yes. Unequivocally.

I'm in healthcare. I've sat in 20-30 different demos over the last 2 years, all of which involve AI in some capacity and at least half of those were solutions that had already built a customer base.

But a lot of devs won't know that because they aren't sitting in meetings where product decisions are made. I'm in a unique position, but that doesn't meet it's not happening.

Re: AI doesn't generate working products, that's still your job

#267

Post by mexicocitinluez »

pants2 wrote: post #250
mexicocitinluez wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> have we seen great new products or improvements in the products we use over the past 12,24,36 months This sentiment drives me nuts. I'm on a handful of software dev subreddits and the amount of new products popping up has tripled since these tools became available. I also don't understand how you'd expect to measure this. Is there some single list of all software that's been released that annotates whether AI was u…

There's a staggering amount of new, basic software which often goes unmaintained quickly because no discipline was needed to build it. But I don't think we're seeing, for example, Adobe releasing new creative suite tools faster than before. This isn't something I can quite quantify, though.

What industry are you in and what's your role? There are new EMR's popping up overnight in healthcare. And that's my point. There's no way a person can say that it's not happening because they personally aren't seeing it. Thinking in terms of "Well why aren't the big companies building software quicker" answers it's own questions. It wasn't the coding that was making it slow.

Re: AI doesn't generate working products, that's still your job

#268

Post by Bootvis »

twister2920 wrote: post #265
Bootvis wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have solo built this: https://github.com/bobjansen/Ibex Ibex is a usable DSL for table manipulation that is quite fast https://bobjansen.github.io/Ibex/benchmarks.html I'm still managing to add more features, such as multithreading. The LLM's do make mistakes but they have gotten better and they tend to self correct these days. I'm also comparing results to mature products such as Polars and DuckDB and the results…

how many users do you have?

Zero. I don’t think that implies the product is bad though. I haven’t marketed it much yet and I’m not great at it either. Even if it is marketed well, integrating the tool into existing workflows would take some effort. This has nothing to do with the suitability of LLMs though.

Re: AI doesn't generate working products, that's still your job

#269

Post by Pamar »

realusername wrote: post #188
jaccola wrote: post #24

The test is simple: have we seen great new products or improvements in the products we use over the past 12,24,36 months? The only great new product I’ve used is my LLM of choice, and those labs seem to be hiring more humans than ever. Maybe it’s true that Claude only just got good enough and that 12 months from now our day to day lives will be way better thanks to LLM-driven product improvements/breakthroughs. My be…

> The test is simple: have we seen great new products or improvements in the products we use over the past 12,24,36 months? I'd say it only became viable end of last year but yes, recently there's a surge of hobbist software which is very visible. How well they will be maintained, that's another story

Can you name a few? Not doubting your claim, just curious because I am maybe not following the same niches you do.

Re: AI doesn't generate working products, that's still your job

#270

Post by csomar »

Zanfa wrote: post #110
jaccola wrote: post #24

The test is simple: have we seen great new products or improvements in the products we use over the past 12,24,36 months? The only great new product I’ve used is my LLM of choice, and those labs seem to be hiring more humans than ever. Maybe it’s true that Claude only just got good enough and that 12 months from now our day to day lives will be way better thanks to LLM-driven product improvements/breakthroughs. My be…

I have a similar one. Is Claude Code (web and/or VS Code) still a buggy mess? Pretty much every single agent loop bugs out and requires a hard refresh, which sometimes still doesn’t help. And they have an effectively infinite LLM budget and unreleased models to fix the issues.

Even Pi sucks. I can no longer get it to open. OpenCode sometimes consumes all my 32Gb of memory. Codex sometimes doesn't display the full output (display issue). I stopped using Claude Code because of how unpredictable their agent is (and it is very opaque about what it is doing). I don't even get to how many times I run a prompt and then the response is stopped mid-way. The whole industry is a joke.
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