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Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

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Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

#261

Post by awwaiid »

LoganDark wrote: post #244
awwaiid wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter example, the book that is the foundation of much coursework and learning for people in AI, has a whole section on "Machine Learning" with all that k-means and such in there - https://aima.cs.berkeley.edu/

I'm really not sure how that's a counterexample. The section is called machine learning, not AI. Machine learning is a useful tool for artificial intelligence, so I'd be surprised if a book about AI did not talk about it.

I'm saying that Machine Learning was borne of AI from the very beginning. ML has become specialized enough that we may later (much much later) declare it somehow larger/separate/overlapping, but it originated from AI as the generic umbrella.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_learning

Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

#262

Post by AdieuToLogic »

noisy_boy wrote: post #230
akudha wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a human’s performance for 40 plus hours a week can be reduced to a performance score , that too in a field like healthcare, that alone feels weird. Sure there needs to be some way to reward people/evaluate their work etc, but I dunno if management by metrics is the best way, especially when those numbers are calculated by an algorithm. Where has all the empathy gone? And common sense? :(

> Where has all the empathy gone? And common sense? :( Contrary to popular belief, I don't think common sense has gone away. It just has been deprioritized at the altar of profit. It'll be visible loud and clear the very instant if/when the lives of the assholes chasing profits was on the line.

>> If a human’s performance for 40 plus hours a week can be reduced to a performance score ... >> Where has all the empathy gone? And common sense? :(

> Contrary to popular belief, I don't think common sense has gone away. It just has been deprioritized at the altar of profit.

Or perhaps it has been left to starve due to apathy and an unrelenting pursuit to reduce the difficult job of leadership into a much simpler one based on arbitrary numeric values which are defensible to those higher in the managerial food chain.

Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

#263

Post by soared »

Loughla wrote: post #171
xmprt wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nursing and PCP are very different jobs. Ones a lot more cognitive than the other whereas the other involves actually doing/executing on a plan. I can see how AI would help reduce the cognitive burden while actually increase stress on the execution side.

Do you still get doctors for primary care? Our local hospital is hiring nothing but nurse practitioners now. They're amazing in a support role, but not equipped as well for primary care roles.

I’d rather have an NP 10 times out of ten for primary care

Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

#265

Post by ballon_monkey »

abeindoria wrote: post #100

That is surprising. My primary care provider had a different response. Basically he said something in line of "You wouldn't believe how much of a relief it has been. In your last visit, you saw me typing everything you were saying, right? I don't have to. I can listen to you and take very specific notes as necessary as opposed to focusing on both typing and listening to you at the same time. It has bought my stress l…

NZ uses AI dictation and according to doctors who were apprehensive at first, they now love it because they feel they spend less time note taking, more time listening to the patient, and can deal with patients better.

Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

#266

Post by w10-1 »

motivated reasoning: study in advance of nursing union contract negotiations

The sad thing is that there are many issues, but the study didn't really address them. One would hope for more effective critics.

The AI application I'd like to see would be to identify the elective hyper-utilizers (so we could try to demotivate them by addressing what's really bothering them). That would improve quality of care for them and quality of life for providers, and create time for outreach to the under-utilizers who need preventative care.

Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

#268

Post by bogtap82 »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #107

the more I read about how AI is being used, the more I'm coming to the conclusion that despite me personally find it quite useful in my work, and even my personal life to some extent, it is a net negative to society as a whole, and if the choice is between zero AI or the AI that is being deployed, we'd be better out without it what significant improvements to society or humanity have come about as direct result of AI…

I mean, "AI" as it presents itself in the zeitgeist is in its infancy. It's like making conclusions about the internet in the late 90s. Whatever it becomes likely hardly resembles what it is now. For better or for worse.

Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

#269

Post by pbhjpbhj »

SoftTalker wrote: post #254
iknowstuff wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The older the doctor the more experience they have, but also their knowledge is more outdated (how many keep up with medical journals?) and their brain is worse at learning and connecting dots so I'm not sure I'd choose the oldest I could find.

The human body is the same as it was before your doctor was born.

Medicine however is not the same. Nor is our understanding of the human body.

For example, a 60 yo doctor would have been born before the first heart transplant, the recipient lasted 18 days. Now 5000 are performed each year and after 5 years 80% of recipients are alive.

Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

#270

Post by reinitctxoffset »

derekdahmer wrote: post #115

I RFTA and the majority of the complaints are about call center metrics and the pressure to ration care. These are real concerns about misuse of metrics, but not AI. The AI empathy thing was a 2024 pilot that was discontinued. FWIW my wife works for Kaiser and finds a lot of value in the the medical LLM tools available to her. She tells me being able to do live translation, summarize notes, and quickly get comprehens…

“There is always a point at which the Amodei ceases to manipulate the media gestalt. A point at which the capital misallocation may well escalate, but beyond which the Amodei has become symptomatic of the capital markets themselves. Amodei as we ordinarily understand it is innately media-related. The Hangzhou hackers differ from other AI engineers precisely in their degree of self-consciousness, in their awareness of the extent to which media divorce the act of giving Amodei fuckin money from the original sociopolitical intent.”
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