Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

theregister.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 335 posts

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#261

Post by pbgcp2026 »

spankibalt wrote: post #164
epolanski wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. 1. My bank doesn't allow to go in person without an in-app taken appointment. 2. My nephew can't play football in his team, because the team has an app to book/signal your availability. No other way. 3. Half of restaurants in my area do not have non-QR code menus, they just don't. 4. McDonald's will make me pay the scam pricing you get without the app. 5. My doctor gives documentation only and exclusively in di…

First and foremost: I'm sorry for you. Living in a participation-dictated-by-app hellscape sucks. But most people only realize this when the magical one or two steps happen that force them to "touch grass". With regards to specific points that match with my reality: > "My fiance's office badges are smartphone-based. You cannot enter otherwise." I worked for a company where that was a thing. Easy fix: They issued me (…

You would be PIP'd next week today. Nobody is dealing with that anymore. Is it suppressing our rights? Yes. Absolutely. And it will get worse. And no, people will not revolt. And you will be left behind, on the other side of the gates, after all your team has gone through. Happy to do it? Rich enough to do it? I'm not ...

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#262

Post by pbgcp2026 »

jjav wrote: post #250
SoftTalker wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I go to a restaurant that has QR-only menus, I won't make a scene about it, but it lowers the mental rating I give the place and I'm less likely to return.

I suggest making a scene about it. I've never encountered such a restaurant but will definitely make a scene about it if it happens.

If you do make a scene - please do not order soup. LOL

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#263

Post by microtonal »

abc123abc123 wrote: post #182
dandandandan2 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone Hyperbole doesn’t help. I’m a 44 year old former software engineer now with a modest social media following (100k per platform). I don’t have a phone. I’ve never had a smart phone, last dumb phone gone in 2015. I have to hassle my bank to let me use email instead of SMS for 2FA, and I hand jot notes for driving directions sometimes. Otherwise, I’m immense…

This is the way! I do not have a smartphone. I print maps, use email, print boarding cards, do my banking and shopping with a web browser, pay with cash or a debit card. I think people have been brain washed to believe they can no longer live life without being enslaved by a surveillance device. Lost? Ask for directions. Need a map? Go to a hotel or a tourist center, or print one in advance.

The thing is, most people do want to have a smartphone. Either because living without requires an amount of effort they are not interested in or because they actually like using a smartphone for certain things. Personally, I like having the web and maps accessible from the palm of my hand everywhere I go.

So, the solution is not to suggest that people should not use a smartphone. That ship has sailed. I agree that it should still be possible to do things without for people that do not want to use one. But you are not going to convince more than a small percentage of the population to abandon smartphones.

Instead we should focus on making alternative smartphone ecosystems (AOSP can be a starting point) and getting technology that is used to shut out competition (e.g. Google Play Strong Integrity) banned.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#264

Post by contubernio »

vitaflo wrote: post #79
contubernio wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banking basically has to be done via phone now.

Find a better bank I guess. I’ve never used my phone for banking of any kind ever.

I am in Spain. It's universal to use mobile device for almost all banking this is common in Europe.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#265

Post by pbgcp2026 »

SoftTalker wrote: post #122
rjrjrjrj wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically, sure you probably can spend a large amount of time, energy, and money to find alternative non-smartphone ways of navigating through modern life. Practically, you need a smartphone. Engaging an attorney != practical

That's the thing. The larger amount of time, energy, and money we spent on doing banking in the 1990s was real. The web, and then mobile apps, made a lot of that more convenient. But it's not impossible to live the old way. You can still write paper checks, go to the bank to make a deposit and get cash, etc. It used to be normal, everyone did it, now it seems extremely inconvenient for most people.

"You can still write paper checks" – greetings to our US brethren! :-) In EU you will meet a girl at the counter who can operate only bank "tap on" terminal and have no idea how to print anything or where the website is. Why? She doesn't care. She is paid same money if she does or doesn't. Wnant to complain? Here is the feedback form (QR code) ... Manager? She is ...

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#266

Post by pbgcp2026 »

api wrote: post #163
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #76

The challenge isn't buying it, the challenge is being able to do phone things with it. Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone. Most things will work but it takes one critical service that doesn't have a viable workaround, and you're forced to buy (and possibly carry) a "mainstream" phone just for that. Banking, government, authentication, postal service and public transit apps are just some of t…

It's mind blowing that we've allowed the development of a de-factor personal ID device absolutely controlled by an oligopoly of two private corporations. Do people realize that this means either of these companies, since they can remotely turn off your account or device, can deplatform you from society including from many government services? It's an astounding amount of power we have simply ceded to these two compan…

I know you are not going to like it, but it started when they took our guns. Now they took our jobs. Next is unified minimal global personal tax (seems to be decided at 30%). On unrealised capital gains. And phones? That's a smoke screen for you to look other way. (And to watch you all the time too)

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#267

Post by microtonal »

medvidek wrote: post #200
jolmg wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This probably depends on location, but generally, you cannot log in to your bank account on your laptop/computer without using your phone's banking app for 2FA. That's the status quo among banks. Whether it may be possible to convince a bank to give you a hardware token instead if they even still make them is not an assured thing.

I have several accounts in different banks (across two different countries) and never had problems with using SMS as a second factor for internet banking. Definitely not status quo, at least in Europe.

I'm in Europe and my bank (and most other banks in the country) only still allow existing TAN authenticators until they break or run out of battery, but only support 2FA with their app going forward.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#268

Post by microtonal »

johnsea wrote: post #14

This article fails to mention GrapheneOS. The article starts with Murena, Punkt, Volla which are all based on Android. If you do this, then imho you must mention GrapheneOS, the by far better option (updates, privacy, security, organisation). Google Pixel with GrapheneOS is the best non-Google phone... ;-)

It's incredibly funny, because a lot of these companies behave the same as the duopoly that people try to get away from. Murena's CEO repeatedly stated that security hardening is only needed for secret agents and criminals (explicitly calling out child porn), pushing the same narratives as the people pushing chat control, age verification, etc.

Volla and Murena are pushing Unified Attestation, a similar system to Google Play Strong Integrity, that they can use to block competition.

Besides that, both Murena and Volla have abysmal security and Volla is mostly in the business of German-washing Chinese smartphones. E.g. their Volla Phone Quintus is a smartphone designed by an Emirates company, largely produced in China, that can be had for 150 Euro new on the ebay.ae .

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#269

Post by microtonal »

bornfreddy wrote: post #237
subscribed wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean.... Android is aosp. And if you want to run degoogled GrapheneOS you just don't install Google services. Out of the box it does NOT contain any - but /e/OS ships with the privileged microG, which means that Android Auto or Google Play Store have privileged access to the phone. So I'm not sure how can you suggest GOS is less "degoogled" while not shipping anything but allowing to install sandboxed / constrained…

That privileged plug in /e/os makes push notifications work, and you can enable just those and leave Android Auto, G Play Store and whatnot disabled. Not much privacy risk - I think? On the other hand, while GOS is running Google services sandboxed, they are still running and have access to internet. If you try enabling them only when you need push notifications, they will break - notifications stop coming. Neither s…

Ehm, microG on /e/OS is talking to Google all the time. They also use proprietary Google blobs for passing basic Play Integrity. /e/OS also gives a bunch of Google apps (including Google Maps and Android Auto) privileged access (you can find the signing key fingerprints in the source code of the /e/OS microG fork).

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#270

Post by pbgcp2026 »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #165
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #76

The challenge isn't buying it, the challenge is being able to do phone things with it. Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone. Most things will work but it takes one critical service that doesn't have a viable workaround, and you're forced to buy (and possibly carry) a "mainstream" phone just for that. Banking, government, authentication, postal service and public transit apps are just some of t…

"As an individual, it feels like my options are to either submit or try to live a hermit's life, bringing endless suffering and exclusion to myself." Classic "all-or-nothing", "black and white" HN comment No middle ground. Two extremes and nothing in between In the real world, few people think this way Not only that, but it's common today to have more than one computer There is no shortage of HN comments that keep cl…

On that "lot of banking on the go" ... here is the story. I witnessed nice and very well mannered US woman at Hilton in Rome. She was red and her hands were trembling. She tried all her 5 US-issued CCs – none worked. I felt bad for her, so we sat on the sofa. We installed one of the online FinApps (W...e) on her phone. She used her bank's app to transfer money to W...e account. Generated online Mastercard. Added to apple wallet. Beeep. Room paid. Good luck without those apps and mobile phone.
Post reply on HN