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EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

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Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#261

Post by Aurornis »

bogwog wrote: post #170
Aurornis wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you do “triggers dopamine”. Reading HN triggers dopamine. Eating breakfast triggers dopamine. Dopamine is also important for movement and many other things. This is a lame reduction of brain chemistry that has been used to push agendas. Dopamine is not equivalent do addiction.

> calls it a lame reduction of brain chemistry > posts a lame reduction of the argument

Argument was literally that “social media triggers dopamine” which was supposed to imply something else.

Stop trying to say “dopamine” when you really mean to refer to a behavioral problem.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#262

Post by [deleted] »

jayGlow wrote: post #87
criddell wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An an adult, do you also believe seat belt laws are a bad thing?

personally yes, that kind of choice should belong to the individual not the government. besides that though the laws are nonsensical why is a seatbelt required in a car not not in a bus, why are motorcycles even allowed at all?

[deleted]

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#263

Post by sofixa »

pembrook wrote: post #186
jrflo wrote: post #118

I heard someone on a podcast call social media algorithms "the modern-day cigarette" and that really resonated with me. These companies know their product is addictive and bad for users, but they keep pushing it anyways. Like cigarettes, it's bad for everyone, not just kids. I made an algorithm blocker for Safari because of that and it's actually crazy how much more pleasant social media is if you don't have recommen…

Glad to hear a false comparison to something that's actually physically/chemically addictive really resonated with you (a.k.a. affirmed your already existing beliefs in this moral panic). If we step back and look at this rationally though, can anybody point me to any peer reviewed studies (the actual studies, not clickbait articles written based off the studies) showing that social media is anywhere near as physicall…

> If we step back and look at this rationally though, can anybody point me to any peer reviewed studies (the actual studies, not clickbait articles written based off the studies) showing that social media is anywhere near as physically harmful or addictive as cigarettes?

First thing that comes to mind, not exactly what you're asking for but still pretty clearly "physical harm": Facebook enabled the Rohingya genocide with their algorithm fueling the hatred's spread. They knew it's happening and ignored it. Yes, genocidal hatred can be spread via other means just as well (like radio in Germany, Rwanda), but that doesn't absolve Facebook from the blame, like you wouldn't be absolved if you started a radio station to spread hateful propaganda encouraging violence.

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/pixels/article/2022/09/29/rohingya...

https://www.asc.upenn.edu/research/centers/milton-wolf-semin...

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2025/01/united-states...

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#264

Post by Aurornis »

afavour wrote: post #154
Aurornis wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely wild that we’re seeing proposals to shut down parts of the internet and regulate when people can talk to each other on social platforms as a real suggestion on HN. I feel like we’ve completely lost the plot when we’re starting to invite government partial Internet shutdowns as a good idea. This is a totalitarian government play.

I think it speaks to the complete lack of government regulation in the area that people see such extreme answers as positive. If any government had seen fit to engage in light regulation of what social media can do people might be happier.

Evidence suggests the polar opposite.

Governments have been working on regulating platforms. Every time they get close, there’s outrage when people realize what it means for them.

Age regulations are the best example. Every time the topic comes up there is a lot of support for government regulation of social media by age.

Then every time there comes an actual attempt at government regulation or even self-regulation by the companies, everyone goes ballistic when they realize what that regulation means.

This topic is awash in ideas that regulation will come in like a scalpel that only touches something that won’t affect anything we like, only hurt some companies in some specific way that doesn’t take anything away from us. This notion doesn’t survive contact with reality.

That’s how we get these short sighted comments inviting the government to come shut down parts of the internet. I bet the person who asked for that assumed it would be perfectly targeted at sites they don’t need or use, leaving their version of the internet untouched. They never imagined the government might scope creep it to start shutting down communications they didn’t like.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#265

Post by mock-possum »

jrflo wrote: post #118

I heard someone on a podcast call social media algorithms "the modern-day cigarette" and that really resonated with me. These companies know their product is addictive and bad for users, but they keep pushing it anyways. Like cigarettes, it's bad for everyone, not just kids. I made an algorithm blocker for Safari because of that and it's actually crazy how much more pleasant social media is if you don't have recommen…

Huh, and like the cigarette, even though I feel like I see what the appeal is supposed to be, I just cannot get over how gross it actually is to engage with, and feel like I’m already ‘over it’ and am just waiting for everyone else to figure it out.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#266

Post by chinathrow »

nekusar wrote: post #238
chinathrow wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this satire?

Is school busses without seatbelts satire? Are motorcycles without seatbelts or harnesses satire? All im saying is that an adult should be able to choose to wear a seatbelt or not in their own vehicle. And also, shouldnt get fined for choosing to not wear one. BTW, i wear one when i drive or am a passenger. And if im driving, i ask everyone to wear one.

> All im saying is that an adult should be able to choose to wear a seatbelt or not in their own vehicle.

Millions of deaths and injuries avoided as a result of seatbelts obligatory in many countries around the world do not share your world view.

https://unece.org/sustainable-development/news/unece-celebra...

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#267

Post by alkonaut »

Aurornis wrote: post #84
conception wrote: post #19

This is pretty easy to solve. If you present data by algorithm, you are no longer an impartial common carrier and are liable for the content you present. If the user decides you don’t, ala social media 1.0.

> If you present data by algorithm, you are no longer an impartial common carrier and are liable for the content you present Hacker News is a site that presents data by algorithm. Under your definition, Hacker News goes away, too. A more accurate framing would be that they’re going after personalized recommendation algorithms. It’s not obvious that offering a recommendation algorithm would mean that the site is no lo…

> Hacker News is a site that presents data by algorithm

Does it though? I mean by "algorithm" in this context we mean "personalized algorithm meant to maximize engagement and retention".

Not e.g. "sort by upvotes and decay by time" or even "filter content based on coarse user location".

Does HN show me a different front page than everyone else based on which articles I have read or upvoted? That would make me feel worse about the site because I don't want a personalized HN feed I want to read what everyone else is reading (which is incidentally why I refuse to give up linear TV).

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#268

Post by alkonaut »

gibspaulding wrote: post #151
Aurornis wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it would be great if all of these apps had an option to function like you propose: Your feed is a simple view of people you’ve chosen to follow. The end. Then all of the people who have trouble with self-control on infinite feeds can enable this mode, and everyone who wants the recommendation algorithm can leave it on. This is the optimal outcome that actually serves everyone’s personal goals for using these…

I don’t endorse using these apps, but for what it’s worth, Instagram actually does have this feature (tap “instagram” at the top and select “following”). You get a chronological feed with no adds and no reels. Of course they don’t provide an option to make that the default as far as I know.

Yup so all they need to do is only allow that content feed for anyone under X years in some specific countries. Seems like they'll survive this, and it won't even be very expensive to fix.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#269

Post by [deleted] »

SirMaster wrote: post #184
wackget wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The modern-day cigarette is such a perfect metaphor for social media. A cabal of unfathomably wealthy companies spreading their harmful products across the world; making them as addictive as possible while actively burying the research which proves how harmful they are. I truly hope one day we'll look back on social media and smartphone use the same way we regard smoking.

But if you stop using social media, you don't still have a risk of lung cancer in the future. The effects of social media usage are surely reversible by stopping using it and then some retraining of the brain. The effects of years of smoking are not so reversible in terms of what it does to your body.

[deleted]

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#270

Post by Aurornis »

cyanydeez wrote: post #196
Aurornis wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you didn’t notice, this comment is an ad for a paid app trying to capitalize on social media anger. I respect the hustle, but this is not a neutral comment on the topic due to the financial interest. There are many free alternative plugins for targeting social media feeds if someone wants to filter these.

If you haven't been on HN, you'd believe this was some aberration as opposed to the norm. This is a YC run forum, so it's pretty normal for comments to contain software advertisment based comments.

It’s also the norm to call it out when someone isn’t disclosing their financial interest in something.
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