261–270 of 496 posts
Very convenient of Mr. Willison to omit the fact that Bun's upstream changes are total garbage and would not be upstreamed regardless of any policies, omitting LLM generated code or not, since they are, as a zig core team member articulated in a classier way, shite.
What were you trying to imply by "very convenient"?
The funny thing LLM's are amazingly good with writing in Zig. They could inspect stdlib source code to fix compatibility issues with newer compilers and quite prolific with idioms. For example I got a working application with minimal prompt like "I need an X11 tray icon app showing battery charge level". BTW result: https://github.com/baverman/battray/ Now I'm trying to implement a full taskbar to replace bmpanel2. R…
Also my experience. Though my actual ability to remember the language nuances and stdlib is suffering from this :(
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think it's the complete fanbase. However, there are lots of people in the world who live their whole life by vibing. It's a viable way to live and sometimes it's the only way to live. But they have a very loose relationship with truth and reason. Programming was a domain that filtered out those people because they found it hard to succeed at it. LLM's have changed that and it's a huge problem. It's hard to kn…
"They may speed up the good programmers a little, but those people were able to program anyway without LLMs." I don't think this is realistic. I'm a good programmer, and it speeds up my work a lot , from "make sense of this 10 repo project I haven't worked on recently" to "for this next step I need a vpn multiplexer written in a language I don't use" to, yeah, "this 10k line patch lets me see parts of design space we…
i know what a kernel module is and im reasonably certain that the patch is safe, but there is no way in hell i would have found that solution (i would have given up). in a world without llms, the project would have died.
Without AI, I’m a guy spending years learning C++ in spare time I don’t have to develop software concepts and solutions I want to work on TODAY.
The ZIG project, to me, has a place. Legacy coders right now do need protecting.
It’s not people like me that they need protection from.
It’s not even language models they need protection from.
What they need protection from are the corporate structures who falsely believe that this technology makes them obsolete.
The article talks about “playing the person, not the cards” and that thinking has one fatal flaw: the vibe coder is a person. The vibe coder may have creative agency that the legacy coder does not.
Look, I still cross up French and Spanish words because I took a year of each, C++ syntax, Python syntax, HTML, I understand their structures but I’m liable to start out writing a Python script and wind up with half a web page and a brutal error message in my IDE environment.
Zig’s motivation is correct in many ways I think. I am not really their target audience or their target coder. But I am also not their target enemy. Put the right group of legacy thinkers in my think tank, and the code would get even better.
-The Court Jester of Vibe Code
How about intellectual-property risks?
If LLM code really does have IP risk then most of the world's most valuable companies may have to throw away ~18 months of work at this point.
"What are the intellectual-property risks of using generative AI tools? The Oracle Contributor Agreement (OCA) requires that a contributor own the intellectual property rights in each contribution and be able to grant those rights to Oracle, without restriction. Most generative AI tools, however, are trained on copyrighted and licensed content, and their output can include content that infringes those copyrights and licenses, so contributing such content would violate the OCA. Whether a user of a generative AI tool has IP rights in content generated by the tool is the subject of active litigation."
Earlier quoted context omitted.
When the best AI models are the same or better than the best[1] human developers, what then? We're already at the point talking about best vs. best.
How can AI possibly be better than “the best” when the corpus of training data now includes its own slop in addition to all the code by new devs/lazy devs/bad devs scattered all over the internet? Law of averages applies here.
Billion times faster than a human, no tiring, no miscalculation, no brain-fart, no cheating.
LLMs are not smart as the LLM vendors claimed to be. If they are, we wouldn't be having this conversation because they will be fully autonomous People who blindly submits LLM generated code or do not cite its usage really need to stop doing it
> need to stop doing it They won't I suspect. If there isn't any good way to give them a good smack for doing it then I don't know what would make them stop.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> to "for this next step I need a vpn multiplexer written in a language I don't use" but that acceleration is exactly because you're not good at that language
Can't we reach a compromise where proven track record of good use of LLM by a contributor or a company (eg. Bun) be pre-approved or entertained? Blanket ban on a new technology shouldn't be the default option.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think it's the complete fanbase. However, there are lots of people in the world who live their whole life by vibing. It's a viable way to live and sometimes it's the only way to live. But they have a very loose relationship with truth and reason. Programming was a domain that filtered out those people because they found it hard to succeed at it. LLM's have changed that and it's a huge problem. It's hard to kn…
"They may speed up the good programmers a little, but those people were able to program anyway without LLMs." I don't think this is realistic. I'm a good programmer, and it speeds up my work a lot , from "make sense of this 10 repo project I haven't worked on recently" to "for this next step I need a vpn multiplexer written in a language I don't use" to, yeah, "this 10k line patch lets me see parts of design space we…
The problem with this line of thinking is the same with "I so good as C developer, my code is so-safe!".
And we see what reality instead tell: Yes, exist people where this claims are true, not, is not even a decently sized minority.