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Your phone is about to stop being yours

keepandroidopen.org

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Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#261

Post by 627467 »

kodablah wrote: post #65
TGower wrote: post #52

This is a wild misrepresentation of the situation. Saying there is no opt-out is just false, they even provide the information on how users can opt-out. The "mandatory 24 hour cooling-off period" is also misleading, it's easy to bypass the cooling-off period with ADB.

> Saying there is no opt-out is just false I can't see where one can opt-out of this new behavior and into the existing behavior, only a description of the new behavior's bypass (which is not the same thing at all) > easy to bypass the cooling-off period with ADB I don't think this is a reasonable use of the term "easy". I should be able to give my non-technical friend an apk and they can use it right then, with the…

ADB is not the only option. Do the 24hs wait then the experience will not be much different than what already happens today: https://imgur.com/a/Z9hoYIh

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#262

Post by kuhsaft »

NDlurker wrote: post #30

>Android's openness was never just a feature. It was the promise that distinguished it from iPhone. Millions chose Android for exactly that reason. Google is now revoking that promise unilaterally, on devices already in people's pockets, because they've decided they have enough market dominance and regulatory capture to get away with it. This is why I've stuck with Android for the past 15 years.

This is a very HN view of Android. The "openness" of Android was for mobile device manufacturers, not app developers and end-users. Android's prominence was driven by the myriad of low-cost Android devices by multiple device manufacturers, whereas iOS is only available via iPhones.

The vast majority of users don't care about "openness" of the OS. They care about the utility of their phone in everyday life.

Can I access digital payment systems, social media apps, and entertainment apps? How's the camera on the phone? How big is the screen? Is it waterproof? How expensive is it?

These are the questions the majority of phone buyers care about. Not, can I download an app off of a random website and install it?

---

I would say that the majority of developers don't care about the "openness" either. They care about accessing a wide audience and getting revenue from their work. Free apps without ads or in-app purchases (zero-revenue apps) are the minority.

Google is also fine with losing the zero-revenue app developers because they provide no value for Google. Actually, they are probably a loss for Google, since Google provides Google Play Services.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#263

Post by kube-system »

supern0va wrote: post #259
kube-system wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> . I should be able to give my non-technical friend an apk and they can use it right then Unfortunately that is the same vector that scammers use to drain people's bank accounts

>Unfortunately that is the same vector that scammers use to drain people's bank accounts Is the solution really that no one can use a computer without special permission and inspection of government issued identification? If we wouldn't tolerate this with our desktop/laptop OS, why is it suddenly okay for our mobile computing platforms? If Microsoft required this to run software in Windows, there would be riots.

> Is the solution really that no one can use a computer without special permission and inspection of government issued identification?

No, that is neither the only solution nor is it the one proposed here by Google.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#265

Post by 627467 »

dvh wrote: post #154

On my Android phone's home screen I have 23 apps, 11 of them are my own. If Android prevents me from installing my own apps I will switch to something else.

Unless you move to a linux phone (good luck finding one or daily driving it) your phone options are iPhone.

iOS restricts you to install only up to 3 personally signed apps which need to be resigned every 7 days only if you're in the same network of the computer that signs them. Or you live in europe and you can jump through much worse hoops to install AltStores which also break as soon as you travel outside of europe.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#266

Post by at-fates-hands »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #85
gdulli wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is still a point to making a choice. Inconvenient sideloading is still better than no sideloading. In principle I could never reward Apple with my business for having originated and normalized this. And pragmatically, I'd like to hold on for as long as I can to the next set of rights that Apple will take away five years before Google does.

From what I can tell, Graphene OS will be unaffected. Some of the app stores like Aurora and F-Droid may run into problems during the verification process. Best I can tell (and read from other sources) is an inconvenient 24 hour wait period and many have said the Graphene team will overcome that in short order. I would say keep the faith as I'm in the same boat and have made my choice for privacy and control. Giving…

[flagged]

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#267

Post by Cider9986 »

vfclists wrote: post #218
Cider9986 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should switch to GrapheneOS instead.

You mean buy a Google Pixel? How many people can afford one?

In the USA, I think most people can easily afford a Pixel 9a at $56/year of device support starting from today.

Calculator checks yearly cost based on device support: (https://ibb.co/xq82YQCw)

Sources for device lifetime from calculator: (https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-lifetime)

I used a New+Unlocked+Pixel+X on eBay to find a rough price of the phone.

Most people get scammed by their carrier and pay $25-45 per month just for their wireless subscription, and many more get caught up in the device bundles which gets you the "latest and greatest", at a huge price. So people are paying, per month, what you can pay, per year for a Pixel.

You can use Silent Link to pay by the gigabyte with no expiration date. Most people don't need unlimited—I use a maximum of 5 GB per month, and my average is around 3. At $1.60 per month, that is $60 per YEAR for me.

Swap in https://jmp.chat for another 60 dollars per year for calls/texts and you get a $120/year phone bill which is just $10/month.

I will be moving from US Mobile to Jmp.chat once my plan expires.

You could also use US Mobile for $17/month which is unlimited and is user friendly. They also often have Pixels for a significant discount with no lock-in.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#268

Post by 627467 »

buzzwords wrote: post #57

I imagine most of us here will look elsewhere when we next upgrade. But are those numbers large enough to form a viable alternative?

Dont get me wrong: I'd love the linux phone "rebel" community to be as large as the android one. But... i doubt it will be anytime soon? The problem is getting the hw investment done first.

Android ecosystem is equivalent to windows one: its open enough to sustain a large number of vendors and tinkerers.

I doubt this scare-campaign (OP link) will drive people constructively towards (effectively) innexistent linux alternatives. It's more likely to do nothing or push people towards iOS

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#269

Post by bloppe »

a2128 wrote: post #137
criddell wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For you, is the openness of Android appealing as a matter of principle or does it enable you to do things you couldn't otherwise do?

I developed my first Android app when I was around 16 years old and I remember distinctly wanting to publish it on Google Play, but couldn't because they required developers to be 18+, and this was even before they introduced strict identity verification requirements. And iOS was a lost cause as XCode famously requires an operating system that only runs on very specific hardware for which I had no money. No matter, I…

This is why I really wanted Capyloon to take off [1]. The idea was to build a whole mobile OS around PWAs. App Stores are just CDNs. There are no weird rules about payment processors. The ecosystem did not need to start from scratch.

Unfortunately, it just never gained the necessary momentum.

[1]: https://capyloon.org/

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