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The wonder of modern drywall

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Re: The wonder of modern drywall

#261

Post by retired »

ragall wrote: post #111
woodpanel wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German I have to admit we are culturally odd with this. Our houses are way too over constructed and the dry-wall stigma here is just one aspect of it, wood construction stigma is another. It thus is no wonder that Americans have way more affordable housing. Those stigmas are also odd for most of our heritage-like old towns that are full of still-intact "Fachwerk"-Wooden-Constructions - which basically use the sa…

> Our houses are way too over constructed They're not. The long-term reduction in maintenance costs more than make up for it. Tell a German that the "normal" North-American "common sense" is saving 1-2% of the house value every year for repairs and you'll be considered a madman. > and the dry-wall stigma here is just one aspect of it, wood construction stigma is another Both stigmas are very well justified.

Saving 1% of your home value for repairs is actually the guideline set by the Dutch government. For HOAs there is even a legal mandate that they must set aside 0.5% of the rebuild value every year, but most decide on 1% to 2%.

Re: The wonder of modern drywall

#262

Post by epcoa »

enobrev wrote: post #259
epcoa wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rarely do pipes, wires, or ducts just outright fail even in 50 years. Usual case for tearing out drywall is for voluntary renovations. Shit behind the wall just doesn't "fail" if it is left undisturbed or you were unlucky like those that got defective PEX or similar installed.

My house is 150 years old, but it's also been rebuilt several times in that time. My neighbors' houses are less than a decade old. We have all swapped stories about replacing things behind drywall. Leaks. Electrical issues. Ducts. Everything. Consider yourself lucky if you have not. 50 years is not the number you should bet upon.

So outside of a few notable examples, the materials rarely fail, galvanized duct work should easily last half a century in a properly installed and maintained system, properly installed copper pipe or PEX and even (C)PVC, properly installed NM or wiring in conduit where code requires, where people get into trouble is with shoddy builders and the housing market often causes those to forgo proper inspections and it is ultimately a “market for lemons”. But blaming drywall seems a bit misplaced, since shoddy building in targeting cost only, they’re going to be the last ones replacing drywall with something fancy and expensive.

Re: The wonder of modern drywall

#263

Post by epcoa »

enobrev wrote: post #224
hedora wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we ever build another house, it's going to be attic-free with exposed conduits + hvac ducts / pipes on the ceiling. Every electrical box is going to have a 2" conduit (embedded in the wall) running up to a conduit that runs on the ceiling (if there's a basement, then down to the basement ceiling). This would let us avoid stapling electrical lines + network cables to studs inside walls. Fixing shorts, adding circui…

In Chicago, code requires EMT for all electrical, which can be annoying for adding a new run, but at the very least it makes it less likely for rodents to chew through or other interference. After wiring my whole house with Ethernet and ceiling speakers, and now dealing with a couple leaky pipes and several problems from previous owners, I'm considering ways to make these things easily accessible/replaceable while ke…

For nearly a decade, Chicago does allow MC cable in a number of circumstances, basically up to 25 feet branches where you don’t want to open up a wall.

Re: The wonder of modern drywall

#264

Post by ragall »

DANmode wrote: post #260
ragall wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather not. I expect more from a modern house.

I identify with that frustration more than most! But, how many additional decades will you expect it for, without giving your nervous system the rest it’s asking you for?

My plan is threefold:

1) move to a very quiet neighbourhood that's far from downtown (DONE). My wife doesn't like the commute but we'll live with it for the moment.

2) get my startup going so that I can afford to buy a house and spend the ~1-2M required to renovate it Euro-style. Hopefully within 3-4 years. That way I'll be able to live basically in downtown (Midwest) but still have a comfortable house.

3) move back to Europe as soon as possible

P.s. I found Mack earplugs not that good. Honeywell Laser Lite are much better.

Re: The wonder of modern drywall

#265

Post by ragall »

DANmode wrote: post #246
loandbehold wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In places like Boston there are many 100+ years old stick frame houses. They hold up just fine. Properly built wooden houses don't get any mold.

Hold up ≠ remain a healthy place to breathe. ChangeTheAirFoundation.org

It's funny that people born here don't know about it and I, an European buying a house and asking the workers that came for some initial renovations, found out. The wall guy said he often finds small amounts of mold when he's called to replace drywalls, but owners don't like to be told about it.

Re: The wonder of modern drywall

#266

Post by DANmode »

ragall wrote: post #264
DANmode wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I identify with that frustration more than most! But, how many additional decades will you expect it for, without giving your nervous system the rest it’s asking you for?

My plan is threefold: 1) move to a very quiet neighbourhood that's far from downtown (DONE). My wife doesn't like the commute but we'll live with it for the moment. 2) get my startup going so that I can afford to buy a house and spend the ~1-2M required to renovate it Euro-style. Hopefully within 3-4 years. That way I'll be able to live basically in downtown (Midwest) but still have a comfortable house. 3) move back…

Thanks! :]

Re: The wonder of modern drywall

#267

Post by aidenn0 »

ragall wrote: post #117
maxerickson wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sitting here in a 100+ year old stick frame house. The siding and shingles were replaced 10 years ago. There hasn't been any major structural work for at least 40 years. What is your definition of "often"?

Most houses have asphalt shingles with an expected lifetime of ~15 years after which they start leaking and subject the house to the risk of mold. Contrast with ceramic tile shingles which easily last 75-100 years. Of course you might say that durable materials exist in North America, but almost nobody chooses them. The likelihood of being able to move somewhere and be able to buy a modern durable house is ~0% in NA,…

Ceramic tiles only last until a worker goes on the roof and breaks one. In the US, contractors routinely require you to release them from liability of any damage to ceramic tile shingles. Pest fumigation becomes much more of a pain.

That being said, if you want them, you can get them (this is how I know the above), and you can get other options. All of this is orthogonal to stick-frame construction. I've seen copper-roofs on stick-framed buildings even.

Re: The wonder of modern drywall

#268

Post by ragall »

aidenn0 wrote: post #267
ragall wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most houses have asphalt shingles with an expected lifetime of ~15 years after which they start leaking and subject the house to the risk of mold. Contrast with ceramic tile shingles which easily last 75-100 years. Of course you might say that durable materials exist in North America, but almost nobody chooses them. The likelihood of being able to move somewhere and be able to buy a modern durable house is ~0% in NA,…

Ceramic tiles only last until a worker goes on the roof and breaks one. In the US, contractors routinely require you to release them from liability of any damage to ceramic tile shingles. Pest fumigation becomes much more of a pain. That being said, if you want them, you can get them (this is how I know the above), and you can get other options. All of this is orthogonal to stick-frame construction. I've seen copper-…

In a properly designed house there's almost never any need for a contractor to walk on the roof. Attics are fully insulated and are habitable, etc...

Re: The wonder of modern drywall

#269

Post by lostlogin »

usrnm wrote: post #171
lostlogin wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why we would ever build houses from trees instead of reinforced concrete Earthquakes are a factor where we are, but also, if NZ can find a way to do something cheaper, we will always do it. Quality be damned.

I seriously doubt you get sufficiently more earthquakes than, say, Tokio, which is mostly concrete

Christchurch would give it a run for its money. It’s down to every few days now but it was almost by the minute for a while there.

Have a look at that second link, and skip to 22.2.2011. At an about 12.51 it goes wild, and it lasted for years. It’s still shaking now.

https://earthquakelist.org/new-zealand/canterbury/christchur...

https://www.christchurchquakemap.co.nz/february

Re: The wonder of modern drywall

#270

Post by [deleted] »

ragall wrote: post #244
loandbehold wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have many friends who own houses built in the last 10 to 30 years ago. None of them have any issues with mold.

> None of them have any issues with mold. ... or so you think. Mold contamination is most of the times invisible and triggers long-term chronic intoxication. People only realise there's a problem if the mold starts growing on the walls, at which point it's too late.

[deleted]
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