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The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

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Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#261

Post by Zizizizz »

logicchains wrote: post #88
pjc50 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guns in the US don't seem to be helping people avoid getting shot by ICE. (to the extent that armed revolution worked in the UK, the IRA were helped only slightly by US-backed supplies of Armalite rifles, and much more by a large supply of Libyan high explosives. Guns are a much less effective political weapon than the car or truck or hotel bomb)

>The guns in the US don't seem to be helping people avoid getting shot by ICE. The woman who was shot was a democrat without any guns, maybe if she'd had a gun she wouldn't have been shot.

Maybe if he didn't have a gun she wouldn't have been shot.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#262

Post by notepad0x90 »

vablings wrote: post #252
notepad0x90 wrote: post #153

I think Orwell was prescient and attuned to this sort of thinking in England at his time. Perhaps, it never really went away? e.g.: "crimestop" https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/725596-crimestop-means-the-... It isn't precrime or "dissent management" that is the problem, but the engineering of behavior and thought in society where such concepts are acceptable to people. I don't think we can discuss it in detail here,…

This doesn't work. The current POTUS is clearly trying to politicize the chair of the federal reserve who is independent and for his sociopathic fanbase it is working a treat, they do not even understand that Powell is not the sole decision maker of the interest rates

He is able to do that and a whole lot more because the regulators, attorney general, ombudsmans,etc.. report to him. it's a vulnerability in the structure of the US government he's exploiting. Even if he leaves peacefully, and a decent administration comes along, it will only be temporary, he's shown others what can be abused. What maddens me is not him, someone like that has been inevitable. It isn't even his opposition's lack of competence. No one talked about this stuff, constitutional amendments, curbing the executive power, passing laws to clarify limits of powers,etc.. even in the previous admin. No one is talking about now, and they won't even after this one leaves. They don't care, nobody does. They're all just sitting in the house and complaining about the arsonist burning it down.

Even as he's dismantling nato or trying to invade greenland, do you think it's difficult to get a handful of republicans to support a bipartisan law to forbid that? They're just spectators, the lawmakers. The judges are scared sh*#!less, and powerless. Everyone is hoping that problem goes away, or at best they only care about the latest and immediate issue.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#263

Post by elcritch »

rich_sasha wrote: post #152

I'm very confused by this, on many fronts. I don't really know why the government is doing it. It's not for grand headline reasons, as it's all pretty quiet, for this and for prior changes. I also really don't think the UK is in the grips of some kind of authoritarian nightmare. If anything, my experience is that it's impossible to convince the police to do anything. These days, surveillance state or not, when your c…

In my view a corrupt government tends to also be less effective at basic governance while looking out more for the government. Hence police don't pursue thieves but will arrest people for twitter/x posts.

Add in things like suspending the right to jury trial for some crimes because "its taking too long" shows how ineptitude in governance can overlap with government overreach.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#264

Post by joe463369 »

JCattheATM wrote: post #168
iamnothere wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, now that you mention it I’ve seen the same sort of thing from people who are definitely not bots. Although, you can’t discount the possibility that they do some government or law enforcement work as a consultant. The full throated defense of police state tactics is unreal. (For what it’s worth, there are plenty of Americans who show up in Palantir/Flock threads doing the same thing, and I have the same suspicio…

For a current example look at the other guy replying to my comments, earnestly trying to equate 'free speech zones' in the US which have not been a thing in years, maybe more than a decade, with people in the UK being arrested for holding up blank signs. I can't imagine it's paid work because what would be the point? It's not like he is influencing anyone's opinions.

Nobody has been arrested in the UK for holding a blank sign. Please stop saying it.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#265

Post by RansomStark »

foldr wrote: post #258
RansomStark wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sports teams aren't a particularly good criteria, I could be Scottish or Welsh and play for England, it's one of those idiocracies of living in a country that pretends to be 4. Denying the existence of an ethic group is extremely racist, and is often considered a precursor to other much more serious issues. If you have any acquaintance with English history you would be well aware that there are native ethnic groups t…

>If you have any acquaintance with English history you would be well aware that there are native ethnic groups that have been in the UK since approximately the end of the younger dryas around 11,000 years ago. And you'd be aware that nothing even vaguely corresponding to 'England' existed 11,000 years ago. If you are willing to lump the descendants of Romans, Normans, Jutes, Durotriges, Iceni, Vikings, etc. together…

It's interesting that other native groups, all of which have intermixed with others over thousands of years don't have to defend their right to their ethnic identity.

The English ethnic group is defined by a shared genetics and culture, the English enthic group isn't just political it is biological and can be identified via DNA.

I wouldn't consider my definition eccentric, it's based on the UN defintion: Ethnic group or ethnicity refers to a group of people whose members claim a common heritage or common ancestry and usually speak a common language and may have some common cultural practices.

The other thread argued that Boris Johnson is ethnically Turkic (I have no idea if that is true) on the assumption it is true, Boris Johnson may meet the requirement of a common language, but does not meet the requirement of a shared ancestry to be ethnically English.

Many of the groups that you mentioned existed in the UK over 1000 years ago, and shared in the same invasions, same issues, and developed a shared culture due to that shared history and closeness of relations, and of course as evidenced by DNA analysis interbreeding.

So yeah I would say that in the space of a millennium multiple groups can become one group.

I also

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#266

Post by JCattheATM »

joe463369 wrote: post #264
JCattheATM wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a current example look at the other guy replying to my comments, earnestly trying to equate 'free speech zones' in the US which have not been a thing in years, maybe more than a decade, with people in the UK being arrested for holding up blank signs. I can't imagine it's paid work because what would be the point? It's not like he is influencing anyone's opinions.

Nobody has been arrested in the UK for holding a blank sign. Please stop saying it.

Fair enough. People were just arrested for holding up signs like 'abolish monarchy' or 'not my king', and the person holding up a blank sign was intimidated by police. Slightly better, I guess.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#267

Post by 9JollyOtter »

solumunus wrote: post #214
9JollyOtter wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've viewed and read an interminable number of interviews with Cummings. The statements you have made don't really line up with the interviews I've listened to. The context around the events and what his involvement was and was not, is important. You are leaving out key information that he mentioned in many interview appearances. > He decided that a) Brexit was a good idea (we can see how that turned out) Without r…

> It may have been different if… Genuinely, how? Give me the best case scenario.

Any answer I give would be found unsatisfactory so there is little point in bothering.

I've already stated my impression of what happened in Parliament leading during that time period, it was obvious that people were being obstructionist and that alone doomed any hope of a positive outcome.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#268

Post by 9JollyOtter »

vablings wrote: post #248
9JollyOtter wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree. The British State has been going in this direction ever since Blair's government and probably before that. I don't remember Blair's government being that unpopular.

New labour really laid the groundwork for alot of the orwellian laws that are in place now. Its a shame nobody who has been elected since sought to roll them back...

There is simply no-incentive to. Generally there are many incentives to increase the number of laws, as they can be seen as doing something about a some recent issue. Many of the recent online safety laws (even before OSA) are good examples of this.

Additionally Britain generally has a problem with politicians believing that the only solution to a problem is banning/regulating things, regardless what the root cause might be. Banning/regulating something requires new legal powers. So more laws.

This been true as far back as I can remember with them talking about banning the Lotus Carlton back in the early 90s because one vehicle the infamous 40RR was used in a spate of ram raids which embarrassed the police. I remember this on the news when I was about 9-10 years old.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#269

Post by 9JollyOtter »

vablings wrote: post #247
9JollyOtter wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most don't want any of the options presented to them. Almost all the parties don't really serve the electorate, so a large number of people are abstaining. I appreciate this in an anecdotal but I've spoken to quite a few people I know in my family, that saw it as their civil duty to vote and they told all told me some variation of "there is nobody worth voting for", "I don't think it matters who I vote for".

There are good options I think for most people. I did not like labors party policy, so I voted for the Lib Dems in a large labour area, did it achieve anything for them? No, did I do my civil duty? I am sure many green voters felt the same way for many years and now they stand a decent chance of getting many seats!

Your best option in your area was a protest vote, but you still believe there are good options. To me that sounds like cognitive dissonance.

I don't vote. There are many reasons I don't vote. However the biggest reason I don't vote is that the whole premise or at least how it is presented to you is false. The way it is presented to you both in school, media etc. is that you are supposed to read the manifesto, consider the candidates arguments and history etc. etc.

People don't do that, they vote for their team. People have their political teams, much like Premiership Football it often comes down to the "Reds vs the Blues" (literally Man U vs Man City).

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#270

Post by joe463369 »

JCattheATM wrote: post #266
joe463369 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody has been arrested in the UK for holding a blank sign. Please stop saying it.

Fair enough. People were just arrested for holding up signs like 'abolish monarchy' or 'not my king', and the person holding up a blank sign was intimidated by police. Slightly better, I guess.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/abolish-the-mona...

> Police Scotland said the 22-year-old woman arrested outside St Giles’ Cathedral in Edinburgh on Sunday had been arrested for “breach of the peace”.

> The woman was holding a sign reading “f** imperialism, abolish monarchy”, but the sign is not understood to be the reason for her arrest

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