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How I Left YouTube

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Re: How I Left YouTube

#261

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

conqrr wrote: post #16

> In the software engineering world, we exist on a ladder. We call this ”Leveling”. Career is a made up game. There are no true levels or ladders in life that you have to chase. Nobody will care or remember what you did or what level you were given enough timespan. Take the bits that you want (money, skills etc) to live life, but don't get too caught up trying to win the game.

I could care less about your prestige. Most people care about the money that comes higher up the ladder and more importantly for me, the autonomy.

Yes I’m well aware that a “senior developer” in enterprise dev probably makes less than a new grad at BigTech.

Re: How I Left YouTube

#262

Post by wavemode »

aeyes wrote: post #93

I have seen this from the manager side at these kinds of companies, explaining to your manager that you are quitting because your level does not match your work is a waste of energy. Their hands are usually tied. Promotion decisions are made by committees which are 1-2 levels above your manager, your manager presents the candidates. They round up a pot of multiple teams which are discussed at once and there are usual…

All of this is true, though it's definitely worth noting that some managers are better than others at advocating for the promotion of their top performers.

Getting a manger who is too passive, or too checked-out, or just plain doesn't like you, can literally set you back in your career advancement by years.

Re: How I Left YouTube

#263

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

motbus3 wrote: post #249
MobiusHorizons wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1. Worth saying this is also not at all a software engineering thing, it’s a large organization thing. I found I could easily discuss career leveling with non-technical government employees. In fact they have much more context than my friends in software engineering that never worked for large companies.

True. Except for the economics part, it is much more fulfilling to work for a smaller company.

Except for the money - the entire reason most people work everyday…

I’m 51, worked at two F10 at the time companies out of my ten jobs and hated them both - GE and 8 years later Amazon. I purposefully made the choice of pursuing a smaller company and ignoring constant outreach from Google (GCP consulting division). But let’s not dismiss the close to $100K diference I could be making than what I make now.

Also a 25 year old SA that I mentored at AWS three years ago is making the same as I am making. They are an L5 (mid level) and I am a staff consultant. They are pre-sales (no commission) and I am implementations.

Re: How I Left YouTube

#264

Post by braza »

I used to related with what the OP says and if he’s under 35 makes sense to jump to another adventure.

Anyways, a friend of mine told me the complete opposite than the OP after not being selected to a promotion 2x: He stayed competitive enough to the market in case of any issue, but at the same time he slightly moving to the “Dead Sea” existence where the tenure created a small co-dependence between himself and its employer.

His employer knows that he’s working at a discount in comparison to offshoring his job, but at the same time even being a L4 like can enjoy a lot of free time and agency to know when and where to throttle his productivity.

Re: How I Left YouTube

#265

Post by saghm »

wiseowise wrote: post #213
saghm wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, how many people are actually happier with that extra $500k? It's one thing if you're not making enough to allow you and whoever else you might need to support to be happy and comfortable and be able to save enough for emergencies and retirement, but I'm dubious that someone only one other away from a half million dollar raise is in that position.

> And yet, how many people are actually happier with that extra $500k? A hella lot people, are you seriously that dense? If there were gladiator fights for 500k, I would be a fucking janitor cleaning up the bloody mess, because of how many people would die for a chance to make 500k extra.

I think you're overestimating how much making $800k versus $300k would actually make most people happier. You're welcome to disagree with me, but there's plenty of research indicating this might be the case (from a quick Google for "happiness self reported by income" this is the first result: https://penntoday.upenn.edu/news/does-more-money-correlate-g...).

If you think that everyone is the would either agrees with you or is "dense" without doing any sort of cursory investigation on whether the alternate view might actually be common or supported by evidence, I'm honestly not really sure why you're bothering to engage in discussion in the first place.

Re: How I Left YouTube

#266

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

tsoukase wrote: post #260
wopwops wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said "F-this" 20 years ago, moved to the middle of nowhere, paid cash for my property and live on next to nothing. Best decision ever.

I was raised in a rural city and as a kid I thought it was OK. I studied/worked in big cities and my city felt small. Later I returned and now that I turn 50 my small city feel OK again. Tltr: small cities are nice only when you are kid or old(ish)

I wouldn’t go that far. I moved from South GA in 1996 a week after graduating college. I am now back home visiting my parents for Christmas. Everything I hated about living in rural America is even worse now, the economy is even more hallowed out after the factories left and it’s more culturally backwards as all of the people who could leave - did.

My parents retired in their 50s in the early 2000s - mom a teacher and dad a factory worker and they are doing well.

Re: How I Left YouTube

#267

Post by lbrito »

ryandrake wrote: post #122
lbrito wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more so for such a great engineer that in the words of his colleagues is "indispensable for the company". If you're such a rockstar you can probably get shortened loops in good companies through referrals

I’ve never seen someone skip the interview process or get it shortened through a referral. At best it will move your resume to the top of the big pile, which is very helpful, but I don’t think they help much more than that.

I haven't personally seen it either, but there are many commentors on HN (it comes up every time there is a thread about interviewing) that describe precisely that.

Re: How I Left YouTube

#268

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

wopwops wrote: post #243
elektrontamer wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biggest dream of mine but almost impossible if you're married. Women hate it out it in the middle of nowhere.

Not all women. I'm married and have four children.

When you have children, your life is mostly about the kids. It really doesn’t matter if you live in rural America.

As empty nesters, at 51 and 50, there is nothing interesting about rural America. I’m in South GA now visiting my parents with my wife. They spend all of the their time between yard work doing things around the house and church. My cousins who still live here and their lives are just as boring - unless they go out of town.

Re: How I Left YouTube

#269

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

KaiserPro wrote: post #221
conqrr wrote: post #16

> In the software engineering world, we exist on a ladder. We call this ”Leveling”. Career is a made up game. There are no true levels or ladders in life that you have to chase. Nobody will care or remember what you did or what level you were given enough timespan. Take the bits that you want (money, skills etc) to live life, but don't get too caught up trying to win the game.

The worst part about this is that the level is largely made up. Its a social construct. for example a "senior engineer" at a FAANG has more "value" than lead engineer at a no-name startup. However the skill gap between a lead engineer of a team of 6 vs a "senior engineer" at FAANG is massive. a "Senior Engineer" (ie [e|l]5/6 at a faang) makes almost no product decisions. There is a team that makes the GUI, product, m…

Yes you can be good at a no name company. But you won’t get paid nearly as much

Re: How I Left YouTube

#270

Post by Lord-Jobo »

wavemode wrote: post #262
aeyes wrote: post #93

I have seen this from the manager side at these kinds of companies, explaining to your manager that you are quitting because your level does not match your work is a waste of energy. Their hands are usually tied. Promotion decisions are made by committees which are 1-2 levels above your manager, your manager presents the candidates. They round up a pot of multiple teams which are discussed at once and there are usual…

All of this is true, though it's definitely worth noting that some managers are better than others at advocating for the promotion of their top performers. Getting a manger who is too passive, or too checked-out, or just plain doesn't like you, can literally set you back in your career advancement by years.

Get lumped in with the wrong manager, in the eyes of the VP positions, and it can deadend your whole career. They can be a decent manager too. But if they aren’t compatible with their boss, it will burn you all the same.
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