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Don't avoid workplace politics

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Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#261

Post by fuzzfactor »

jojobas wrote: post #195
citizenpaul wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As usual HN comments are more on point than the article. I've lost count of how many times something was proposed and rejected by everyone in the chain except the C-suite. Then the C-suite overrode the process decisions basically because they played golf with someone outside the company. I was once even part of a vendor assessment that was rejected and it turned out that the CEO had already given the green light and…

C-suite stands to gain or lose most as a result of these decisions (even if a lesser loss is perceived more acutely by an engineer). Short of bribery, it's their calls to make.

>Short of bribery, it's their calls to make.

Sometimes falling short, maybe by just a hair, sometimes not :\

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#262

Post by nkax0 »

BatteryMountain wrote: post #236
languagehacker wrote: post #41

When Jeff Hodges gave a presentation of his "Notes on Distributed Systems for Youngbloods"[1] at Lookout Mobile Security back in like 2014 or 2015, he did this really interesting aside at the end that changed my perception of my job, and it was basically this. You don't get to avoid "politics" in software, because building is collaborative, and all collaboration is political. You'll only hurt yourself by avoiding lev…

But then, there might be two different kinds of politics: One is a cordial game of soft power exchange, getting things done and everyone winning at the end of the day. No malicious intent, just day to day frustrations boiling over here & there. Tomorrow is another, we are friends again tomorrow & will succeed tomorrow. Forgiveness & forgetting is in good supply. Some amount of grace is allowed, no drawing blood. Help…

I suspect that the people who enjoy the blood sport are disproportionately drawn to the kind of places that loudly proclaim "no politics" or "we're all equal" without having the proper defenses in place.

Or perhaps, more accurately, they're drawn to places without defenses: both those that are pretend egalitarian but have informal power hierarchies without accountability; as well as those that outright say "we're in it for the game", like the stereotypical high-pressure investment bank.

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#263

Post by mcqueenjordan »

If you want to do great work, that usually happens in environments with minimized politics.

It's probably bad career advice to completely avoid politics (most places aren't doing great work) but it depends on what you're optimizing for.

The problem with everyone getting into the political game is that then we have everyone talking and noone building.

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#264

Post by immibis »

ryandrake wrote: post #145
BeetleB wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I agree with your description of "politics" as a negative/pejorative thing. That's just a difference in framing between winners and losers. If you get your way, you say it was due to influence, bridge building, teamwork, etc. If you don't, you say "politics". For every occasion someone says "politics" negatively, realize the other party is using the other framing. More importantly: For every time you get your way,…

The way I see it is: "Office politics" means getting work done, making business decisions, and/or advancing your career using means other than technical or domain expertise. It could have a good or bad outcome, but it's still politics. The key attribute is that the outcome is achieved through some other method besides actually doing or directing the work.

Isn't directing work also a form of politics?

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#265

Post by Chris2048 »

fusslo wrote: post #45
exmadscientist wrote: post #31

> 5. Being visible. If you do great work but nobody knows about it, did it really happen? Share your wins, present at all-hands, write those design docs that everyone will reference later. And don't forget that when managers or seniors are involved, there's magic alchemy that comes from spreading the credit around. Suppose Bob works under Alice and Bob, mostly solely, accomplishes something significant. If Alice pres…

anecdote: My first company got bought out and the CEO went around awarding bonuses. It was a calculus of around ( 0.4 * salary * number of years ). When it was my turn, he double-checked with HR that I had worked there as long as I had I was super jr, but sat next to his office. Didn't know I existed. Thanks for the link and perspective

As in, you had worked there very little, or very long?

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#266

Post by Maro »

mlrtime wrote: post #259
Maro wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been divorced once. That in itself doesn't mean I go around telling people to not get married. But, it does mean that I forced [1] my 2nd wife to sign a pre-nuptual agreement, and I go around recommending others to do so as well. [1] she initially refused to sign it, I told her the wedding's off if she doesn't, so she did; she's still unhappy about this and hates me for a day whenever she's reminded of it; this…

Brother, I'm in the same boat as you. This unhappiness that your wife has will not go away and you will deal with situation at some point. These hard conversations have a way of finding you. I won't tell you to tear up the pre-nup, but I highly recommend coming up with a compromise (over time) that meets both of your needs.

I know what you mean, I do think about how to soften this situation often. It'd be easier if she'd be rational about it, but she's not the rational type — which is even more reason to have the pre-nup..

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#267

Post by Maro »

lupusreal wrote: post #250
Maro wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been divorced once. That in itself doesn't mean I go around telling people to not get married. But, it does mean that I forced [1] my 2nd wife to sign a pre-nuptual agreement, and I go around recommending others to do so as well. [1] she initially refused to sign it, I told her the wedding's off if she doesn't, so she did; she's still unhappy about this and hates me for a day whenever she's reminded of it; this…

Judges toss prenups all the time. You best keep her happy.

This is not in the US.

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#268

Post by Chris2048 »

Maro wrote: post #207
johnfn wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I kept getting burned, I might think about the types of people I get into relationships with, the type of things I'm learning while dating, and I might talk with friends to see how their relationships are going and see if I could be doing something different. I don't think I would start telling everyone in a relationship to prepare for divorce.

I've been divorced once. That in itself doesn't mean I go around telling people to not get married. But, it does mean that I forced [1] my 2nd wife to sign a pre-nuptual agreement, and I go around recommending others to do so as well. [1] she initially refused to sign it, I told her the wedding's off if she doesn't, so she did; she's still unhappy about this and hates me for a day whenever she's reminded of it; this…

> I told her the wedding's off if she doesn't

Did you tell here beforehand (earlier in relationship) you wanted a prenup, or only after proposal?

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#269

Post by incomingpain »

GPTzero says 99% AI generated. But I want to comment, this is something I learnt early on in my career.

Early in my career our boss let us drink at work. He knew most work was done in the morning and so he allowed us to drink in the afternoon. Worked fine up until someone was having a bad home life and got smashed at work. Then drunk drove to a client and the client realized he was drunk. I wasnt privy to what happened with that, but then we lost the ability to drink.

Not a problem for me... I rarely drank. Everyone else went on a quiet strike. The boss was a huge prick micromanager, the guys wanted to quit because it changed things; but they simply stopped doing work. Every ticket was created and then sent to the queue. Bare minimum got worked on. Months go by and the strike quietly lifted. The drunk guy found a new job.

Months later at lunch they were trying to convince me to get drinking back; but they were trying to manipulate me. They were playing a power game to do it.

So I "fall" into their trap and go talk to the boss. argue about the 5 monkeys, that leave the rule of no drinking in place but turn a blind eye to it. The boss was like 'why do you even care, you dont drink with them." he didnt even let me answer before he realized what was happening.

>Now I think the opposite: politics isn’t the problem; bad politics is. And pretending politics doesn’t exist? That’s how bad politics wins.

Backstabbing, power structures that arent immediately obvious. But negativity is easier and especially effective when you just let bad politics win.

Trying to stay positive or out of politics is the right way.

>It just means decisions get made without you.

Yep. I'm finding myself in one of these right now. Im just staying out of it. Decisions are being made to punish me.

>Good politics is just being strategic about relationships and influence in the service of good outcomes.

This is what this AI article gets wrong. The 'bad politics' people think they are getting 'good outcomes' and if you play politics, you also think you're getting 'good outcomes' but how do you measure 'good'?

>They want a world where technical merit alone determines outcomes. That world doesn’t exist and never has.

Sure it does. This exists in the successful. Politics is what kills companies.

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#270

Post by cindyllm »

incomingpain wrote: post #269

GPTzero says 99% AI generated. But I want to comment, this is something I learnt early on in my career. Early in my career our boss let us drink at work. He knew most work was done in the morning and so he allowed us to drink in the afternoon. Worked fine up until someone was having a bad home life and got smashed at work. Then drunk drove to a client and the client realized he was drunk. I wasnt privy to what happen…

[dead]
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