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U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

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Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#261

Post by wahern »

coldtea wrote: post #258
wahern wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Kantian ethics stealing a loaf of bread is wrong even if done by or for a starving person. In utilitarian ethics stealing bread in that context would be justified. The "civilizational suicide by empathy" narrative is rooted in a utilitarian ethics--empathy is good until the negative consequences outweigh the positive; whereas in Kantian ethics if empathy is good, it's always good, and if that possibly leads to civ…

> The "civilizational suicide by empathy" narrative is rooted in a utilitarian ethics So in actually working ethics, and not some inflexible abstract principles posed by some German philosopher?

That's one take. A counter argument is that utilitarian calculus is highly subjective, individually and socio-culturally, resulting in movements like Social Darwinism, Eugenics movement, etc. And someone like Musk might even argue the ethics of identity politics and contemporary social justice movements are fundamentally similar to those earlier examples, relying on a present day calculus (whether nominally utilitarian or otherwise) that in time, if not already, will prove no less backward, unempathetic, and harmful. Kantian ethics is one attempt to restrain that kind of unconscious, self-serving discretion.

You can go back and forth, poste, riposte, ad nauseum. Abstract ethical philosophy and discourse are their own kind of tarpit, in some ways worse than the rhetoric behind the modern culture wars. To avoid getting drawn into them--the tarpits, if not the philosophies themselves--it pays to know how to identify them and how they interact.

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#262

Post by watwut »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #142
gruez wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That quote was massively taken out of context. His argument was that the west has too much empathy, not that empathy is bad, period. He even specifically prefaced that with saying that empathy is a good thing.

The problem with being on the public stage, is that Every. Single. Word. They. Utter. has the ability to be reframed. With Deepfakes, they can now have words put in their mouths, in a realistic manner. That's why so many politicians and C-suite execs are "weasely." They learn to choose their words carefully. The Fed Chair can crash the markets, by wincing at the wrong time. I empathize with him (see what I did, there…

That is not what happened here. The quote is completely consistent with who Musk is. And is exactly the same in the context. This is not Musk misspoking and experiencing unfair consequences.

It is Musk saying something that is perfectly consistent with everything he does.

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#263

Post by watwut »

A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 wrote: post #106
k__ wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then he cries on TV because people are not buying his cars. Can't make that crap up...

The funny thing is it is the autists, who don't respond well to emotional appeals. Is that all it is? That it is harder to influence high functioning ones?

Was he ever diagnozed? Because all his success is charizma and social skills based. This claim appears only when he needs to be excused. Also, it is super possible to be a harmful asshole and autist at the same time.

Musk also do not care about morals, ethics or laws based appeals.

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#264

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 »

watwut wrote: post #263
A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing is it is the autists, who don't respond well to emotional appeals. Is that all it is? That it is harder to influence high functioning ones?

Was he ever diagnozed? Because all his success is charizma and social skills based. This claim appears only when he needs to be excused. Also, it is super possible to be a harmful asshole and autist at the same time. Musk also do not care about morals, ethics or laws based appeals.

I do not think he ever was. As you note, most of the 'accusations' come up without any real evidence. It is all basically the same story as with most remote diagnosis of all politicians that 99% talk show hosts play with their audiences.

FWIW, I personally do not think he has autism. I do think his mind works differently from a good chunk of the population though.

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#265

Post by Autman82 »

overfeed wrote: post #220
threatofrain wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About a fourth of kids diagnosed with autism have IQ at 75 or below.

How well would your IQ score reflect your actual intelligence if you were to take an IQ test in a language you have trouble understanding and expressing yourself with?

[dead]

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#266

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

watwut wrote: post #262
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with being on the public stage, is that Every. Single. Word. They. Utter. has the ability to be reframed. With Deepfakes, they can now have words put in their mouths, in a realistic manner. That's why so many politicians and C-suite execs are "weasely." They learn to choose their words carefully. The Fed Chair can crash the markets, by wincing at the wrong time. I empathize with him (see what I did, there…

That is not what happened here. The quote is completely consistent with who Musk is. And is exactly the same in the context. This is not Musk misspoking and experiencing unfair consequences. It is Musk saying something that is perfectly consistent with everything he does.

I was being generous. Didn't feel like arguing with the stans.

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#267

Post by ddmf »

_nalply wrote: post #102
0x1ceb00da wrote: post #78

One thing this will do is disincentivize high functioning autists from identifying themselves as autists, which is a very good thing IMO. Just look at this channel https://www.youtube.com/@NationalAutisticSoc/videos . There is a lot of survivor-ship bias on this channel towards high functioning autists who can talk in front of a camera. Just to give an idea to those not familiar with the difference between high funct…

Autism is seen as a large and wide spectrum of many different symptoms all called "autism". Using terms like "high functioning autism" is probably not a helpful way to talk about some color on the spectrum, however. Source: I am the parent of a child with autism.

Thanks. I much prefer "typically low support needs" because high functioning removes the imperative that I need help at times.

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#268

Post by xorcist »

g8oz wrote: post #217
xorcist wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're exploiting a bug in Western civilization, Who are? Did he say? Sorry for not listening through the whole thing. There's a lot of pointless rambling going, which I guess is something inherent to the format more than it is to him.

Migrants

Hence "Western". Makes sense. Same reason why Europe is doomed and the US will flourish. It's never that simple though, is it? There are numerous counter examples all thoughout history.

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#269

Post by watwut »

0x1ceb00da wrote: post #152
npteljes wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you consider that a good thing?

[flagged]

Basically, only completely healthy people should be allowed to talk about themselves. Those with milder issues are selfish when they talk ... and those with large issues cant anyway.

So, the only people allowed to talk about autism are people like you - those who do not have it.

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#270

Post by antifa »

brightball wrote: post #133
goku12 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think this isn't it? I know that the primary reason for his fixation with autism is to attack vaccines. But have you listened to him talk about autistic people? It's pretty clear that he considers autistic individuals as unproductive (the tax remark) burden who destroys families. It's very clear that he considers them as subhuman. Sounds very close to 'life unworthy of life' argument made by the Nazis.…

Hasn’t RFK Jr spent his entire life trying to find the cause and cure for autism? My life is pretty close to this community and I can verify that all of his comments are 100% accurate. Parents who insist on traveling separately as a safeguard to ensure one of them is able to care for their adult child in the event of an accident, living with the knowledge that both of them passing away will mean the child moves to a…

> Hasn’t RFK Jr spent his entire life trying to find the cause and cure for autism?

He was an environmental lawyer, not a doctor or scientist, so no.

> RFK Jr is giving a voice to parents who are scared, confused and fully aware that nobody is listening to them

It's far more likely (and reasonable to believe) that his brainstorm is an alien entity attempting to weaken the human race for an upcoming invasion, or he's a foreign asset for geopolitical reasons, or he's the biblical Pestilence Horseman of the Apocalypse, than that he's a voice that represents people in the autism community.

Just look at his history. He's caused/causing multiple measles outbreaks. He's already a massmurderer.

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