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String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

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Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#261

Post by SequoiaHope »

nkurz wrote: post #49

Most of the news coverage I've seen of this story is omitting what some might consider a relevant detail: almost all the members of this group are trans. This is a divisive topic, but failing to mention this makes me worry a story is pushing a particular agenda rather than trying to tell the facts. Here's what the story looks like if the trans activism is considered central to the story: https://thepostmillennial.com…

Andy Ngo is not a credible source of news about trans people. Media Matters describes him as a “right wing troll” who spread misinformation about this issue [1] and The Advocate points out that right wing media have repeatedly ignored the facts around supposed trans shooters and continued to spread misinformation on the subject. [2]

[1] https://www.mediamatters.org/diversity-discrimination/apalac...

[2] https://www.advocate.com/news/apalachee-school-shooter-trans...

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#262

Post by dvaun »

mickelsen wrote: post #37

Some bookmarks from early 2023 that seem relevant now: https://zizians.info https://old.reddit.com/r/SneerClub/ https://aiascendant.substack.com/p/extropias-children-chapte... I do not engage with any of those people nor their weird communities.

I especially enjoy how the author from the substack series described the singularity as “The Rapture of the Nerds”.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#264

Post by wat10000 »

cvalka wrote: post #252
wat10000 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s hilarious to me that Roko’s Basilisk maps perfectly to Pascal’s Wager, but they just can’t see it. It’s like any other exclusive religion: your god is made up, ours is real.

Exactly. It's a variation of Pascal's Wager for morons.

I wouldn’t say it’s any worse or better than the original. It basically just swaps some names around.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#265

Post by rexpop »

zozbot234 wrote: post #223
DangitBobby wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or more of them live there because it's one of the most accepting environments on the planet, but still not accepting enough to prevent them from being a marginalized outgroup that is quite easy to radicalize by those that would accept them?

"Even the most accepting environment on the planet is still not accepting enough" is not a very flattering description of trans-identifying folks. In fact, I'd call it rather sobering at the very least. It suggests that the ongoing perceived marginalization of trans folks is a nearly unsolvable problem, that can't be addressed simply by advocating for "doing the right thing".

Or, perhaps, we're very far from an adequate society.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#266

Post by nejsjsjsbsb »

thehappyfellow wrote: post #13

For related background read the (horrifying) description of Leverage, a “research” institution with links to Zizians: https://medium.com/@zoecurzi/my-experience-with-leverage-res... There’s an undercurrent of cults and cult-like institutions in the rationalist crowd (think: lesswrong.com folks) and this is one instance of this.

Scared to click the link!

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#267

Post by jl6 »

nejsjsjsbsb wrote: post #218
nkurz wrote: post #49

Most of the news coverage I've seen of this story is omitting what some might consider a relevant detail: almost all the members of this group are trans. This is a divisive topic, but failing to mention this makes me worry a story is pushing a particular agenda rather than trying to tell the facts. Here's what the story looks like if the trans activism is considered central to the story: https://thepostmillennial.com…

Thanks the pronouns were confusing me and making it hard for me to follow the complex story. I assumed I made a mistake when the article mentions a Jack and refers to them as Jack the whole way through but uses she at the end. Unfortunately the gendered language we use is also the mechanism to provide clues and content as you read the story. So if I can rely on that they need to call it out to help the reader. I'd ra…

It goes unmentioned because there is an unwritten rule in progressive media that marginalized groups must never be perceived as doing wrong, because that will deepen their marginalization.

In practice it creates a moral blind spot where the worst extremists get a pass, in the name of protecting the rest. Non-progressive media are all too happy to fill in the gap. Cue resentment, cue backlash, cue Trump. Way to go, guys!

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#268

Post by dinkumthinkum »

EA-3167 wrote: post #50
nkurz wrote: post #49

Most of the news coverage I've seen of this story is omitting what some might consider a relevant detail: almost all the members of this group are trans. This is a divisive topic, but failing to mention this makes me worry a story is pushing a particular agenda rather than trying to tell the facts. Here's what the story looks like if the trans activism is considered central to the story: https://thepostmillennial.com…

I don't think it's so much pushing an agenda, as it is avoiding a thermonuclear hot potato of modern life. If you start talking about gender identity, everyone has STRONG opinions they feel they must share. Worse, a subset of those opinions will be fairly extreme, and you're potentially exposing yourself to harassment or worse. If you sound like you're attacking trans people, that's going to end badly. If you sound l…

No, that is omitting quite a significant detail. If apparently the majority of people have X characteristic that is a tiny percentage in the overall population there is some correlation or something newsworthy there,

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#269

Post by skort »

akoboldfrying wrote: post #242
codr7 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see it mainly as a reaction to a dysfunctional and abusive system/culture, and not necessarily a constructive one. Fix the world and these problems don't exist.

>Fix the world and these problems don't exist. Hard disagree. Plenty of antisocial (or worse) behaviour has been promulgated by those indisputably at the top of the social food chain -- almost every war of conquest, for example. Did the British Empire expand throughout the world because the British felt marginalised? No, the rest of the world considered them to be a great power and many other cultures voluntarily ado…

Okay, so maybe they still exist but maybe fewer people have a motive to seek violent solutions?

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#270

Post by zoklet-enjoyer »

sam345 wrote: post #194

Doesn't sound rationalist to me (from Ziz quoted section of article linked below): "Ziz Impostors keep thinking it's safe to impersonate single goods. A nice place to slide in psyche/shadow, false faces, "who could ever falsify that I'm blaming it on my headmate!" Saying you're single good is saying, "Help, I have a Yeerk in my head that's a mirror image of me. I need you to surgically destroy it, even if I'm then cr…

I put this post into Suno

https://suno.com/song/13bdb0ef-a219-4a2c-b1bf-646698593e56

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