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Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

nytimes.com

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Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#261

Post by jrs235 »

tptacek wrote: post #233
CamperBob2 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot more than just "Insurer costs" and "Doctors' BMW payments" in the pie chart. Again, relatively little of it has to do with actually treating injuries and illnesses. And that's not even getting into the massive market distortions associated with forcing the concept of "insurance" into a market where virtually every single customer will eventually need to file multiple claims. You usually come up with bet…

I've lost track of what you're saying. I'm saying that if you zero out the insurance companies, you don't significantly impact total health costs, because the insurers aren't where those costs are; that's the claim I made upthread you found "... novel", but it's not novel, and it's easy to go verify.

How much care costs can be attributed to providers needing and paying for departments to deal with insurance companies? How much care costs can be attributed to providers needing to spend x% of time merely documenting to ensure insurance will not deny claims/services? We can deal with going after provider fraud separately.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#262

Post by piva00 »

rich_sasha wrote: post #256
WorldWideWebb wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accurate. They are literally middle men taking a cut without offering anything to the process. Switch to single payer, dump the middlemen, and have our taxes pay for essential services (keeping us alive and healthy). Seems simple enough but…

I suppose, careful what you wish for. The NHS (UK's single payer health provider), allegedly the envy of whole wide world, is failing under the burden of insufficient funding, aging society and years of mismanagement by politicians. We're talking, properly dysfunctional, like ambulances taking hours to be dispatched to life-threatening emergencies or people dying on emergency wards due to neglect.

The NHS was properly sabotaged by the Tories, exactly because they wanted to privatise it. Starving the NHS has been per design, no accident there.

- https://tribunemag.co.uk/2023/07/defunding-the-nhs

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#263

Post by shaldengeki »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #59
tptacek wrote: post #29

It's mostly not rational. For instance, much of the conversation over the last day has been about Anthem pushing back on anesthesiology pay on the East Coast. That's people angry about their insurers working to make surgeries cost less by employing the literal guideline Medicare uses, and yet people online were overtly suggesting Anthem's CEO be murdered over it. Incoherent. This won't win me any points in this parti…

The notion that the providers are the ones sucking up all the money in the healthcare industry is certainly... novel. The majority of people in this particular industry have nothing to do with actually providing health care, just as the majority of employees at a major university have never stood in front of a blackboard.

Here's a 14 year-old series showing that providers are the biggest chunk of the overspending in the system:

https://web.archive.org/web/20210421025041/http://theinciden...

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#264

Post by MattPalmer1086 »

tbrownaw wrote: post #159
WorldWideWebb wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accurate. They are literally middle men taking a cut without offering anything to the process. Switch to single payer, dump the middlemen, and have our taxes pay for essential services (keeping us alive and healthy). Seems simple enough but…

> Switch to single payer, dump the middlemen, and have our taxes pay for essential services (keeping us alive and healthy). Seems simple enough but… ... But you still have group A (patients) paying group B (doctors) with group C's (taxpayers', or currently insurers'/policyholders') money.

Sure - but it's a lot simpler with less middlemen and way more cost effective.

What point are you making here?

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#265

Post by valval »

tptacek wrote: post #248
rawgabbit wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What one thing would you change in the American system?

I would drastically increase the number of residency slots Medicare funds.

I would never have expected your answer to be “spend more of other people’s money”.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#266

Post by valval »

bdangubic wrote: post #172
s1artibartfast wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess this is the crux of it. The law does not hold anyone responsible for your death, and nobody is responsible for providing you life saving services. These are the laws that your fellow citizens have chosen and established.

you know, our history says that at times, injustices may need to be fought with a touch of violence… killing CEOs is not the kind of violence any reasonable human being can condone, but people tragically affected by someone’s actions may not be all that reasonable

Another person has tried to rationally explain to you why your position is unhinged and you weren’t taking it, so I’ll put this more plainly. Take up arms today to defend your ideology. Rally everyone you can and go to war. It won’t be a long war.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#267

Post by valval »

totetsu wrote: post #127
s1artibartfast wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont find the "lack of sympathy" to be an issue. What I do find disappointing is the lack of concern over people being gunned down in the street, and the not so subtle glee some people are expressing. Murder should not be normalized or endorsed. It isn't healthy for a society and doesn't lead to progress.

In a society where democratic tools no longer function effectively—due to capture by concentrated powers—people often feel powerless to address systemic harms. I can understand how the only power an individual can have in that situation is something like murder.. but it’s making many assumptions.. like this person really was working as an individual from moral grounds in the interests of majority of society.. and tha…

Democracy in the US works quite well, although it is a shame that your guy lost.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#268

Post by bdangubic »

valval wrote: post #265
tptacek wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would drastically increase the number of residency slots Medicare funds.

I would never have expected your answer to be “spend more of other people’s money”.

all of insurance and all of healthcare is "other people's money" :) it just depends where other people's money is going.

this is amazing thing to me as European living in the United States, people want Gov to spend money for education or healthcare or ... COMMUNISM!! but corporate subsidies and 984 trillion dollars to the department of offense - oh RIGHT ON - let me get another gig job to pay more to that :)

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#270

Post by valval »

bdangubic wrote: post #268
valval wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would never have expected your answer to be “spend more of other people’s money”.

all of insurance and all of healthcare is "other people's money" :) it just depends where other people's money is going. this is amazing thing to me as European living in the United States, people want Gov to spend money for education or healthcare or ... COMMUNISM!! but corporate subsidies and 984 trillion dollars to the department of offense - oh RIGHT ON - let me get another gig job to pay more to that :)

The somewhat obvious thing you seem to be missing there is that the money isn’t being extracted by force.
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