Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

gcaptain.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 500 posts

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#261

Post by sn41 »

majikaja wrote: post #255
mrtksn wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same reason why when civilians in Gaza die it’s because a rocket explodes in a refugee camp or something. Damn rockets why do they do that? Unfortunately, propaganda is part of the war and I can’t really blame them for trying. You can be sure that the other side of the conflict is also not impartial. If the reasons about killing each other were openly discussed in a logical way without the emotional overload, Peo…

"You can receive $100 but someone in the world dies at random" I mentioned the above scenario to my wife and she said she thinks the majority of people would take the $100. I don't know if she's right but I think in any country a large percentage of the population is apathetic about people they don't know (especially foreigners) and can be easily prodded to support genocide.

I wouldn't - 100 dollars is not worth a death on my conscience. (I do not live in a rich country and 100 dollars is not a trivial amount for me.)

Perhaps if the choice were more drastic: you can get a life saving treatment for free, but someone else dies at random, then my choice would be different.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#262

Post by mrtksn »

majikaja wrote: post #255
mrtksn wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same reason why when civilians in Gaza die it’s because a rocket explodes in a refugee camp or something. Damn rockets why do they do that? Unfortunately, propaganda is part of the war and I can’t really blame them for trying. You can be sure that the other side of the conflict is also not impartial. If the reasons about killing each other were openly discussed in a logical way without the emotional overload, Peo…

"You can receive $100 but someone in the world dies at random" I mentioned the above scenario to my wife and she said she thinks the majority of people would take the $100. I don't know if she's right but I think in any country a large percentage of the population is apathetic about people they don't know (especially foreigners) and can be easily prodded to support genocide.

I think most people wouldn't support genocide and they are not apathetic and that's why propaganda is needed in first place. When at war, belligerents systematically dehumanise their opponents so that their population or allies wouldn't oppose killings of human beings for gains.

Ukrainians call Russians "meat" and Russians portray Ukrainians as less than humans or Nazis. Russians will also not name Ukrainians but call them just "opponents" and they wouldn't kill them but neutralise them so that people can easily think in terms of reaching an objective in war and not in terms of loss of human life.

On Twitter, popular accounts would Tweet things like "name 10 Israeli and 10 Palestinian inventions" to dehumanise Palestinians by showing that Israeli lives are more valuable than Palestinian ones and if you support the "civilised world" you should support those who are contributing to it(unlike the "subhumans who don't").

In Turkey, Turks used to believe that Kurds have tails like monkeys(not a popular belief anymore but it was up until 10 years ago), therefore they are less than human.

It's just something its always done. War isn't fair or brave or dignifying endeavour. It's actually quite disgusting.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#264

Post by snird »

johnnyworker wrote: post #259
snird wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unrelated. They are hungry because Hamas is stealing the aid: https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/palestinian-terri... And not because there is not enough aid brought in. Hamas are to blame here, Israel does not stop any aid truck from coming in.

That's showing one instance of Hamas stealing food. And you just go "so obviously, the whole situation is their fault case closed who cares". You're not even trying to hide it.

It happens daily.

Here's another: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/humanitarian-tr...

Maybe you just try so hard to side with terrorists?

They hurt both Palestinians and Israelis.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#265

Post by viraptor »

snird wrote: post #256
flandish wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> needed They need to leave Gaza alone and not blockade. At. All. How’s that boot taste?

What blockade? They have a border with Egypt. Why won't Egypt let them leave? There was never a blockade because Israel never surrounded Gaza.

The border to Egypt refuses any cargo. All goods have to be brought in through Israel. There two issues there - that doesn't make the effective blockade from Israel's side a non-issue.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#266

Post by imtringued »

snird wrote: post #256
flandish wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> needed They need to leave Gaza alone and not blockade. At. All. How’s that boot taste?

What blockade? They have a border with Egypt. Why won't Egypt let them leave? There was never a blockade because Israel never surrounded Gaza.

It is pretty obvious that if given the option, Israel would drive every last Palestinian out of the Gaza strip just to be sure that Hamas can't send rockets ever again. Once Palestinians have left, they will never be allowed to go back. You end up with millions of stateless people.

Also you pulled the last sentence out of your ass, talking as if Israel doesn't border the Gaza strip, because the city itself technically has no border with Israel.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#267

Post by johnnyworker »

snird wrote: post #256
flandish wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> needed They need to leave Gaza alone and not blockade. At. All. How’s that boot taste?

What blockade? They have a border with Egypt. Why won't Egypt let them leave? There was never a blockade because Israel never surrounded Gaza.

> They have a border with Egypt. Why won't Egypt let them leave?

"Leave" as in "ethnically cleanse themselves, never to return"? So what's all this song and dance about pretending to not be on board with genocide about?

> There was never a blockade because Israel never surrounded Gaza.

Ahuh.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-counted-calorie-require...

> Israel maintained the blockade was necessary to weaken Hamas, an armed, Iranian-backed group committed to Israel’s destruction.

> But critics say the blockade constituted collective punishment against Gaza’s more than 1.5 million people in its ultimately failed effort to shake Hamas’ hold on the territory. An American diplomatic cable revealed by WikiLeaks last year quoted Israeli diplomats as saying they wanted to “keep Gaza’s economy on the brink of collapse.”

[..]

> Similar to the calculation of the calorie needs, Israel also used baffling secret guidelines to differentiate between humanitarian necessities and nonessential luxuries. The result was that military bureaucrats enforcing the blockade allowed frozen salmon and low-fat yogurt into the Hamas-ruled territory, but not cilantro or instant coffee.

There never was a blockade. There is no genocide. Just keep handwaving and it will all go away.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#268

Post by bawolff »

johnnyworker wrote: post #258
mrtksn wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to go into the "who's to blame because" arguments since to do this you need to pick a cut-off date and you can pick an arbitrary cut-off date to pick a side. Pick the 7th of October 2023 as a cut-off for the past and Israel is blameless until they massacre the civilians later on. You also need to pick definitions, and you can pick definitions anyway you like. Define civilians in a certain way and you are…

> I don't want to go into the "who's to blame because" arguments since to do this you need to pick a cut-off date No, why would you have to? As I said: > Everyone is responsible for what they do There is no giant blob called "war" and you now weigh the responsibility of one of two "sides" for that blob. That is precisely my point. The crimes of Hamas do not take one iota away from the crimes of Israel, and vice versa…

> Israel is committing genocide.

You state these things like they are objective facts that have been proven.

I suspect that most of the pro-israel side would be against israel comitting genocide (of course there are probably some extremists out there, but one hopes they are a small minority). The difference of opinion is not about whether genocide is wrong, but whether that is what Israel is doing.

And hey, with the recent south africa case at the icj, we might get lots of international law experts weighing in, so it might all become more clear.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#269

Post by johnnyworker »

snird wrote: post #264
johnnyworker wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's showing one instance of Hamas stealing food. And you just go "so obviously, the whole situation is their fault case closed who cares". You're not even trying to hide it.

It happens daily. Here's another: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/humanitarian-tr... Maybe you just try so hard to side with terrorists? They hurt both Palestinians and Israelis.

[flagged]

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#270

Post by AlexAndScripts »

wolverine876 wrote: post #113
nomilk wrote: post #4

Something I'm unsure about is what does and doesn't trigger wars. Russian jets downed a US drone over the black sea in March 2023, I thought for sure there'd be a commensurate US military response. But there didn't appear to be one. Was it because no human was aboard the drone (so no response was justified), from fear or escalation, or something else? In any case, if a large cargo ship were sunk, would the US or othe…

I read a lot of professional international relations material (but I'm not an expert in any way). IME what may differ the most between 'popular' takes on IR and professional ones is the response to incidents. Arguably the #1 priority of professional IR is to prevent wars (with occasional exceptions, such as Russia or Hamas recently, but even they want to control when, where, and how). Wars can and do happen whether y…

Could you recommend places to read professional IR material?
Post reply on HN