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Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

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Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#251

Post by mrtksn »

johnnyworker wrote: post #242
mrtksn wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same reason why when civilians in Gaza die it’s because a rocket explodes in a refugee camp or something. Damn rockets why do they do that? Unfortunately, propaganda is part of the war and I can’t really blame them for trying. You can be sure that the other side of the conflict is also not impartial. If the reasons about killing each other were openly discussed in a logical way without the emotional overload, Peo…

> I can’t really blame them for trying. You can be sure that the other side of the conflict is also not impartial. Oh, I can for the both of us, and I do. Everyone is responsible for what they do, or tacitly consent to. War is not something that just "is" like rain or snow, it's specific actions of people specific people. And when you say "other side of the conflict" does that include the 1+ million of children, or a…

I don't want to go into the "who's to blame because" arguments since to do this you need to pick a cut-off date and you can pick an arbitrary cut-off date to pick a side. Pick the 7th of October 2023 as a cut-off for the past and Israel is blameless until they massacre the civilians later on.

You also need to pick definitions, and you can pick definitions anyway you like. Define civilians in a certain way and you are blameless. Both Hamas and Isreal overdo this, one claim is that they didn't kill civilians at the party because those served in the IDF for example.

I find this a useless exercise and an attempt to justify killing people for political or material gains. I don't like it, I don't accept any justification and I don't take sides on institutionalised or makeshift extermination of humans.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#252

Post by flandish »

keefle wrote: post #196

I'm really confused as to why no where in the article do they mention the intent of attacking the ships. As if the houthis in yemen are attacking ships because they like it or just because they "hate developed societies". Their declared reason is to put pressure on Israel to allow humanitarian aid to Gaza at once. They target ships that have Israeli links or heading to Israeli ports. It can be seen as a form of treat…

The attacks read like Gulf of Tonkin level “manufactured consent”, is why nobody reports on the deeper details.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#253

Post by flandish »

snird wrote: post #224
keefle wrote: post #196

I'm really confused as to why no where in the article do they mention the intent of attacking the ships. As if the houthis in yemen are attacking ships because they like it or just because they "hate developed societies". Their declared reason is to put pressure on Israel to allow humanitarian aid to Gaza at once. They target ships that have Israeli links or heading to Israeli ports. It can be seen as a form of treat…

[flagged]

> needed

They need to leave Gaza alone and not blockade. At. All.

How’s that boot taste?

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#254

Post by johnnyworker »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #249
johnnyworker wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking the other way is looking the other way. Everybody does that with what they're entrusted with, or doesn't. And when a software build fails because of some very minor thing everything depends on, and someone quips "for want of a nail..." would you then say they "compared shitlib version 0.53 with a physical nail made out of iron for a horse shoe"? What's more, things that are the exact same are the only things…

> Looking the other way is looking the other way No, it’s maintaining focus. Is every article that talks about the war in Gaza looking the other way on every other ongoing atrocity? > You can compared an apple to an orange, or another apple, but not itself You can compare anything to anything. That doesn’t make the comparison useful, nor does it keep it from speaking about its speaker as well.

No, why would it be. But a hypothetical citizen of a nation supporting Israel in their current undertaking not caring that a terrorist attack was committed with the stated intent of creating pressure to stop an on-going genocide, as if it has nothing to do with them, is looking the other way. An article leaving out that context is too. Given that what actually happened was "a flash and no injuries" -- so, nothing -- it seems outright weird to not include that.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#255

Post by majikaja »

mrtksn wrote: post #203
keefle wrote: post #196

I'm really confused as to why no where in the article do they mention the intent of attacking the ships. As if the houthis in yemen are attacking ships because they like it or just because they "hate developed societies". Their declared reason is to put pressure on Israel to allow humanitarian aid to Gaza at once. They target ships that have Israeli links or heading to Israeli ports. It can be seen as a form of treat…

The same reason why when civilians in Gaza die it’s because a rocket explodes in a refugee camp or something. Damn rockets why do they do that? Unfortunately, propaganda is part of the war and I can’t really blame them for trying. You can be sure that the other side of the conflict is also not impartial. If the reasons about killing each other were openly discussed in a logical way without the emotional overload, Peo…

"You can receive $100 but someone in the world dies at random"

I mentioned the above scenario to my wife and she said she thinks the majority of people would take the $100.

I don't know if she's right but I think in any country a large percentage of the population is apathetic about people they don't know (especially foreigners) and can be easily prodded to support genocide.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#256

Post by snird »

flandish wrote: post #253
snird wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> needed They need to leave Gaza alone and not blockade. At. All. How’s that boot taste?

What blockade?

They have a border with Egypt. Why won't Egypt let them leave?

There was never a blockade because Israel never surrounded Gaza.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#257

Post by snird »

johnnyworker wrote: post #248
snird wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

As many as needed? What ??? https://www.ipcinfo.org/ipcinfo-website/alerts-archive/issue... > Between 8 December 2023 and 7 February 2024, the entire population in the Gaza Strip (about 2.2 million people) is classified in IPC Phase 3 or above (Crisis or worse). This is the highest share of people facing high levels of acute food insecurity that the IPC initiative has ever classified for any given area or country

Unrelated.

They are hungry because Hamas is stealing the aid: https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/palestinian-terri...

And not because there is not enough aid brought in.

Hamas are to blame here, Israel does not stop any aid truck from coming in.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#258

Post by johnnyworker »

mrtksn wrote: post #251
johnnyworker wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can’t really blame them for trying. You can be sure that the other side of the conflict is also not impartial. Oh, I can for the both of us, and I do. Everyone is responsible for what they do, or tacitly consent to. War is not something that just "is" like rain or snow, it's specific actions of people specific people. And when you say "other side of the conflict" does that include the 1+ million of children, or a…

I don't want to go into the "who's to blame because" arguments since to do this you need to pick a cut-off date and you can pick an arbitrary cut-off date to pick a side. Pick the 7th of October 2023 as a cut-off for the past and Israel is blameless until they massacre the civilians later on. You also need to pick definitions, and you can pick definitions anyway you like. Define civilians in a certain way and you are…

> I don't want to go into the "who's to blame because" arguments since to do this you need to pick a cut-off date

No, why would you have to? As I said:

> Everyone is responsible for what they do

There is no giant blob called "war" and you now weigh the responsibility of one of two "sides" for that blob. That is precisely my point. The crimes of Hamas do not take one iota away from the crimes of Israel, and vice versa. They each commit them against innocents.

Our opinion as "judges" or "referees" is not so relevant as what we are directly or indirectly responsible for, and what we aren't. Hamas has nothing to do with me, the US and Israel use me, so I need to speak out in clear terms or be responsible.

It's not a complex situation where both sides are kinda bad and we just can't figure out who gets the blame and who gets to get away scot-free. Israel is committing genocide. Hamas is a terrorist organization, that didn't change, and people who support it should be cut off. The same with the right-wing extremists in the Israeli government and those supporting the genocide committed by them. It's just a principle, applied to all comers without respecting the person. As it should be.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#259

Post by johnnyworker »

snird wrote: post #257
johnnyworker wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As many as needed? What ??? https://www.ipcinfo.org/ipcinfo-website/alerts-archive/issue... > Between 8 December 2023 and 7 February 2024, the entire population in the Gaza Strip (about 2.2 million people) is classified in IPC Phase 3 or above (Crisis or worse). This is the highest share of people facing high levels of acute food insecurity that the IPC initiative has ever classified for any given area or country

Unrelated. They are hungry because Hamas is stealing the aid: https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/palestinian-terri... And not because there is not enough aid brought in. Hamas are to blame here, Israel does not stop any aid truck from coming in.

That's showing one instance of Hamas stealing food. And you just go "so obviously, the whole situation is their fault case closed who cares". You're not even trying to hide it.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#260

Post by bawolff »

Aeolun wrote: post #217
bawolff wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel gets yelled at by the UN pretty constantly. If anything that statement applies to Israel more than most countries.

I guess I read it more as ‘actually holding them responsible’ than occasionally (or constantly) yelling at them, since that is kinda pointless.

On the contrary that type of complaining and soft diplomacy does have a real effect. Israel's isolation on the world stage informs a lot of the decisions israel makes currently and has made in the past that lead to the present day.

Its not a "do this or else" sort of thing, but it definitely has had a major effect on regional politics.

Arguably one of the main causes of the current war is israel-saudi normalisation. So you could say that this yelling is so important to some factions that arab countries backing away from it triggered a major war.

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