Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 281 posts

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#261

Post by em-bee »

balfirevic wrote: post #238
em-bee wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it appears you are coming from an area/culture where this idea is ridiculous or unheard of. i can assure you i meant what i said. there is absolutely nothing wrong with having children at 20, or even earlier. however it requires a community and a society that is supportive of that. it works very well in china, because the culture there does support it. traditionally, the young couple lives together with the husbands…

> this way there is no problem with the young parents continuing their studies or working, because the household is managed by the grandparents That doesn't bode well for the mentioned freedom and independence that you were going to get if you had children in your 20s.

you still have more freedom as a grandparent. it's more balanced. you are not locked in to take care of the grandchildren all the time

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#262

Post by bevesce- »

beardedwizard wrote: post #53
basisword wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like most young men have always wanted to extend their youth and avoid the responsibility that family life would bring. However, until recently (with easy access to birth control, abortion, and proper education) this wasn't really possible. You would accidentally have a child and be forced into the lifestyle you were trying to avoid. And most of the time things worked out and you were forced into a situation t…

My experience was that you will never feel "ready" to have kids, you just close your eyes and go for it. I think it is a good idea to look at finances and relationship health; but beyond that I'm not sure much else matters. It's almost the same as marriage - and your comment is insightful in that when given the choice humans will almost never choose to change, being "selfish" feels great while you are doing it.

I don't understand why selfishness comes in this context. I'm considering if and when have children because not doing it would be reckless and egoistical playing with somebody else's life

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#263

Post by em-bee »

deely3 wrote: post #239
em-bee wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are you saying you are a homeless student with kids right now? or are you giving an hypothetical example?

hypothethical. sorry if not clear

no worries, i just wanted to avoid being insensitive.

where i come from and in most other countries that i have seen, the idea of a student being homeless is almost unthinkable. being a student alone grants enough support that this simply won't happen, especially if they have kids. it would have to be something really unusual like the student refusing the accommodation they are offered or being mentally ill in some way that prevents them to make the right choice.

so to me it appears that homeless students are a distinctly american problem. one that the communities and government there need to work on to fix.

the very picture of a single parent with children being homeless is so out of place that i have a hard time imagining that this could happen even in the US.

that you can even come up with such an idea says a lot about how bad support for people in poverty in the US really is.

that said, obviously, if you are homeless, choosing to have kids is probably not a good idea.

but if you decide to have kids and become homeless later, then i would say, shame on the government and community for not providing the needed support.

if you live in a country where this is even possible, you should really try to do what you can to contribute to a change. not an easy task, but one that is absolutely necessary.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#264

Post by corobo »

bitcharmer wrote: post #237
corobo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But a single man adopting is considered as pervert Is this evidence or assumption? Not challenging too hard just wondering if you've actually been called or treated like a perv or if it's something you assume will occur

Whenever I see a comment like that I always wonder how it's possible that someone might actually challenge what we all know well and experienced multiple times throughout our adult lives. Trolling or genuine question from a person that never witnessed what everyone else did?

I'm not a parent, I live in a small town in the UK, I've literally never seen this happen.

I've never even heard of it happening outside of Reddit. I figured maybe it might just be redditors coming off as creepy in general, but seeing the sentiment here too I figured I'd ask.

A solo dad out with their kid would probably go home with a pocket full of phone numbers here haha

Different people have different information mate. If I start trolling on HN I promise I'll make the comments more interesting than a pretty mild question :)

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#265

Post by [deleted] »

tomatocracy wrote: post #75
bt4u wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will absolutely occur. Men who take their kids to the playground by themselves are often confronted (by moms of other kids). At some point things are so obvious that not many people are going to bother finding a peer reviewed study to cite. Maybe they should but they won't.

Not sure where you are but here in the UK I have been taking my children to the playground on my own for 10 years now and I have never seen this happen either to myself or another Dad. At the weekends I'd say it's mostly Dads in fact.

[deleted]

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#266

Post by [deleted] »

tomatocracy wrote: post #75
bt4u wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will absolutely occur. Men who take their kids to the playground by themselves are often confronted (by moms of other kids). At some point things are so obvious that not many people are going to bother finding a peer reviewed study to cite. Maybe they should but they won't.

Not sure where you are but here in the UK I have been taking my children to the playground on my own for 10 years now and I have never seen this happen either to myself or another Dad. At the weekends I'd say it's mostly Dads in fact.

[deleted]

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#267

Post by beardedwizard »

bevesce- wrote: post #262
beardedwizard wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience was that you will never feel "ready" to have kids, you just close your eyes and go for it. I think it is a good idea to look at finances and relationship health; but beyond that I'm not sure much else matters. It's almost the same as marriage - and your comment is insightful in that when given the choice humans will almost never choose to change, being "selfish" feels great while you are doing it.

I don't understand why selfishness comes in this context. I'm considering if and when have children because not doing it would be reckless and egoistical playing with somebody else's life

Sure, it's ok to feel that way too.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#268

Post by [deleted] »

thefz wrote: post #220
hombre_fatal wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but a young man whose main motive for marriage is "so I don't regret not having kids when I'm old" I had a spit take here. When people say they regret not doing something, they are talking about regretting not everything that came along with doing that thing, not just avoiding the emotion of regret later in life. You could rephrase that into "a young man whose main motive for marriage is to have a loving, fulfillin…

> You could rephrase that into "a young man whose main motive for marriage is to have a loving, fulfilling family which they would prefer much more than staying single, esp later in life" There is zero guarantee that a family will turn out right, let alone "loving, fulfilling" so this is just a loaded perspective of an issue that has nothing to do with your own world view.

[deleted]

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#269

Post by hombre_fatal »

thefz wrote: post #220
hombre_fatal wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but a young man whose main motive for marriage is "so I don't regret not having kids when I'm old" I had a spit take here. When people say they regret not doing something, they are talking about regretting not everything that came along with doing that thing, not just avoiding the emotion of regret later in life. You could rephrase that into "a young man whose main motive for marriage is to have a loving, fulfillin…

> You could rephrase that into "a young man whose main motive for marriage is to have a loving, fulfilling family which they would prefer much more than staying single, esp later in life" There is zero guarantee that a family will turn out right, let alone "loving, fulfilling" so this is just a loaded perspective of an issue that has nothing to do with your own world view.

We're talking about what compels people to do something.

How does the chance of failure track here?

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#270

Post by bitcharmer »

corobo wrote: post #264
bitcharmer wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever I see a comment like that I always wonder how it's possible that someone might actually challenge what we all know well and experienced multiple times throughout our adult lives. Trolling or genuine question from a person that never witnessed what everyone else did?

I'm not a parent, I live in a small town in the UK, I've literally never seen this happen. I've never even heard of it happening outside of Reddit. I figured maybe it might just be redditors coming off as creepy in general, but seeing the sentiment here too I figured I'd ask. A solo dad out with their kid would probably go home with a pocket full of phone numbers here haha Different people have different information…

Thanks for your reply and insight. I'm in my 40s and having lived in 4 countries on 3 continents this theme is pretty consistent across cultures.

Ask your friends and family if they'd feel as confident employing a male child minder as a female one. Then ponder on the answers.

In child custody cases the man stands no chance unless the mother is an addict and a criminal. Or at least that's the case everywhere I've been.

Post reply on HN