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Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

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Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#261

Post by aatd86 »

CapsAdmin wrote: post #217
aatd86 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genetic cause is often what is claimed of things that are not very well understood at all. Myopia being one of them for instance. (it's actually often an adaptation process that is actually found to be reversible) Wrt SZ, not only is it very badly understood but a lot of the symptoms can be attributed to biochemical disorders and that does not necessarily imply a genetic predisposition at all. Caffeine can induce psy…

For as long as I can remember I have this thing where I hear sounds, voices and sometimes see things depending on how tired I am. It almost never happens when moving around, it sometimes happen when sitting still and often happens when trying to sleep or wake up in the morning. But always goes away as soon as I move around or start using my brain somehow. However when consuming THC these symptoms are heightened to so…

That's interesting. Usually, I would ask if you have ever had difficulties focusing your attention, some ADHD?

How do you grade your visualization? Can you create a scene in your head and control it 100%?

How often do you get a random song stuck in your head?

I think that more people are prone to this than they think but they are simply not aware.

Some people start realizing things when they end up trying some kinds of meditation practice and since they are not in control and somewhat clueless about what's happening internally, for some of them it sends them off the rails (hence the stories we hear about meditation triggering psychosis etc...)

Some people never experience such things as well. For some, it comes later.

Talking to oneself is fine. Feeling external thoughts, emotions and even minor loss of self agency in motor control is something else and I think that some rationalizations could make sense. But the current lack of understanding is leading people to handwave (not every scientist is so handwavy of course).

There is an issue of depersonalization such as seems to be the case with your friend. All these things are really not understood and the nervous system alongside the brain is quite inscrutable for now.

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#262

Post by Fnoord »

kitanata wrote: post #80

You have these cells in your brain called Microglia. They are responsible for cleaning up neurons and plaques and other weird proteins. These Microglia are activated by the firing neurons which release 2-AG and AEA (Anadamide). AEA binds to the CB1 receptor in these Microglia. 2-AG binds to CB2. THC binds to CB1. CBD binds to CB2. Autistic adults have significantly low blood serum levels of AEA. Autistic people’s neu…

"it could be THC has a positive neurological affect on Autistic people". Or it could be not.

I have autism. Tho I didn't know it back then. I've had multiple minor psychoses from using marihuana recreationally. I know they're minor (with one on the mediocre side) because I've also had a longer episode likely related to stress. Oh, and marihuana was decriminalized back then. From my perspective, the last thing I need, is THC, and your post hasn't convinced me otherwise.

Also, take note of the headline. It mentions men. So for about 50% of society, its unknown. Actually, the reach is even lower, as they looked into men aged 21-30.

Honestly, if I compare marihuana to psilocybin I'd say the latter is more predictable. But either way, it all has to be standardized. Recreational usage of marihuana is not, and this is problematic, even though it is decriminalized here (and has been for many decades here). The fact people cannot buy psilo's anymore here shivers me in that regard; they either grow their own (not standardized) or have to resort to things like truffles.

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#263

Post by NickC25 »

agentwiggles wrote: post #203
y-curious wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you looked into ADHD and cannabis? The TLDR from my reading is that it actually improves your focus and lessens symptoms BUT those improvements also come with the downside of getting stoned.

This is not my experience. I find that weed makes my mind wander randomly down all sorts of tracks. Sometimes this can be fun, interesting, and insightful, but it's certainly not a state that helps my already very poor focus.

Mine too. It can be fun, but seldom is. If I'm already focused on a task, I can get a burst of creativity, but sometimes that just opens the rabbit hole and I inevitably fall in.

Example: gaming while stoned. I might get one game of online chess while high that represents my absolute peak level - I've beaten up to 2300+ rated players...the only problem is I'll turn around and loose to someone 400-500 points lower than me in the very next game. While high, my mind wanders like no other.

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#264

Post by Fnoord »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #99
whats_a_quasar wrote: post #41

There's a really interesting line of research that suggests Schizophrenia is a spectrum, rather than a binary. Lots of people have personality traits that are similar to schizophrenics or have genetic risk factors for the condition. Some of those people develop the full disorder, and some don't. There's evidence that the reason for the split is that psychosis is itself damaging. Once someone has a psychotic episode,…

Psychosis can do a lot of damage. I had a 4-month-long psychotic break that eventually led to me being diagnosed bipolar. It several years to recover from but I think some of the damage is permanent. I feel like I've lost a lot of memory function but I can't remember what things were like before. And it's difficult to separate that out from medication side-effects at this point. What I do know is caffeine gives me pa…

I had an approx 2 month long psychotic episode (its hard to note when it ended as, at least in my case, it kinda winds down so its not binary). Regarding memory, there's MS, autism, and schizophrenia in my family, and I've become older (the episode is now 10+ years ago). There are certain coffee blends which I really dislike, but I can still drink coffee, though not in the evening (insomnia).

During pregnancy (common), but continuing after birth of our first child (rare?), my wife no longer could handle with coffee with caffeine. She tried, but no it does not work.

I'm skipping on alcohol however, I quit that, it makes me too damn tired. Even one dosage has that effect. I cannot stand it anymore. And its not that I dislike the effect. On the contrary, though I limited usage before. Furthermore, I'm prone to addiction/obsessive behavior, it runs in the family somewhat (as part of hyperfocus of autism, I suspect). Nowadays, I can feel a bonbon with alcohol, or tiramisu with alcohol. I really ought to say no to such, too.

Long story short I cannot summarize all of this but I do have a remaining question: I'm curious how you're dealing with alcohol usage.

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#265

Post by CapsAdmin »

aatd86 wrote: post #261
CapsAdmin wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For as long as I can remember I have this thing where I hear sounds, voices and sometimes see things depending on how tired I am. It almost never happens when moving around, it sometimes happen when sitting still and often happens when trying to sleep or wake up in the morning. But always goes away as soon as I move around or start using my brain somehow. However when consuming THC these symptoms are heightened to so…

That's interesting. Usually, I would ask if you have ever had difficulties focusing your attention, some ADHD? How do you grade your visualization? Can you create a scene in your head and control it 100%? How often do you get a random song stuck in your head? I think that more people are prone to this than they think but they are simply not aware. Some people start realizing things when they end up trying some kinds…

Your questions seem eerily targeted haha

I have issues with attention, such that I easily get distracted when trying to focus on something.

I struggle holding a visual image in my head as it easily deteroitates, it's also very faint. I'm not sure what's normal here but I remember I could do this more easily when using THC, even when the effects start wearing down. It's also easier to do in the morning when I wake up before I start moving.

I feel like I have some song stuck in my head all the time. It's almost always a new song when I wake up from sleep.

I also have somatic tinnitus from what I understand. It's not like the beeping you get in your ear once in a while, it comes more from the center, is very high frequency with many overlapping frequencies and sounds a bit modulated. It also gets louder if I clench my teeth or stretch muscles.

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#266

Post by progmetaldev »

Mike_12345 wrote: post #155
progmetaldev wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very much for individual freedom when it comes to drug use, assuming you aren't hurting others. I think in the push for cannabis legalization, many people have forgotten that cannabis is a psychedelic drug. While it's not the same as LSD or psilocybin, it can definitely change perception and thinking. In 1996 I had a psychotic episode from LSD, and developed generalized anxiety disorder and panic disorder. I alwa…

> I firmly believe that psychedelics are triggers and not the cause of mental disorders If a neurotoxic drug such as cannabis causes psychosis in someone who would otherwise never have become psychotic without the drug, then whether you call it a cause or a trigger is quibbling over semantics.

It has not been proven to be neurotoxic, so I'm not so sure over your reference of semantics. I only consume edibles, as the smoke is too harsh for my lungs. This study does not have a definitive answer as to whether cannabis is actually the cause or trigger for schizophrenia.

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#267

Post by red-iron-pine »

Fnoord wrote: post #262
kitanata wrote: post #80

You have these cells in your brain called Microglia. They are responsible for cleaning up neurons and plaques and other weird proteins. These Microglia are activated by the firing neurons which release 2-AG and AEA (Anadamide). AEA binds to the CB1 receptor in these Microglia. 2-AG binds to CB2. THC binds to CB1. CBD binds to CB2. Autistic adults have significantly low blood serum levels of AEA. Autistic people’s neu…

"it could be THC has a positive neurological affect on Autistic people". Or it could be not. I have autism. Tho I didn't know it back then. I've had multiple minor psychoses from using marihuana recreationally. I know they're minor (with one on the mediocre side) because I've also had a longer episode likely related to stress. Oh, and marihuana was decriminalized back then. From my perspective, the last thing I need,…

Heard similar stories from my Ex's older brother.

Nice guy, probably on the spectrum, started smoking weed to help him chill out in social situations. Turned into a heavy user.

Few years later he ended up hospitalized due to psychosis, ended up on schizophrenia meds. Spend 2 years working a shit job medicated up to his eyeballs, smoking weed regularly.

He met a girl after I wanna say ~2 years and got off the weed... and didn't have a lick of psychosis. Eventually got off the meds, working a job just fine, does a lot of mountain biking. Can't say what he's doing now but when me and the ex split he'd basically turned his life around, and it was mostly due to getting lots of exercise and cutting out the marijuana.

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#268

Post by kayodelycaon »

Fnoord wrote: post #264
kayodelycaon wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Psychosis can do a lot of damage. I had a 4-month-long psychotic break that eventually led to me being diagnosed bipolar. It several years to recover from but I think some of the damage is permanent. I feel like I've lost a lot of memory function but I can't remember what things were like before. And it's difficult to separate that out from medication side-effects at this point. What I do know is caffeine gives me pa…

I had an approx 2 month long psychotic episode (its hard to note when it ended as, at least in my case, it kinda winds down so its not binary). Regarding memory, there's MS, autism, and schizophrenia in my family, and I've become older (the episode is now 10+ years ago). There are certain coffee blends which I really dislike, but I can still drink coffee, though not in the evening (insomnia). During pregnancy (common…

I don’t drink alcohol anymore because it mixes badly with my medication.

A single, tiny sip of scotch hits me fast. I immediately start feeling depressed and irritable. Even a couple sips of 2% beer has a noticeable effect for half an hour. It’s incredibly unpleasant.

It’s no great loss because I didn’t drink much before. I do miss scotch though.

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#269

Post by raxxorraxor »

kitanata wrote: post #80

You have these cells in your brain called Microglia. They are responsible for cleaning up neurons and plaques and other weird proteins. These Microglia are activated by the firing neurons which release 2-AG and AEA (Anadamide). AEA binds to the CB1 receptor in these Microglia. 2-AG binds to CB2. THC binds to CB1. CBD binds to CB2. Autistic adults have significantly low blood serum levels of AEA. Autistic people’s neu…

There also needs to be an analysis on higher level brain functions as well.

Delusions of persecution are the most common form of schizophrenia. But drug users are indeed persecuted. Perhaps has no effect, but I could imagine it to be relevant if you constantly have to hide your usage. It certainly is not helpful.

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#270

Post by dooglius »

dang wrote: post #245
dooglius wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not shallow at all, and the above comment teaches more than the wild speculation and anecdotes many of the other top-level comments have.

It counts as a shallow dismissal because it was (a) generic and (b) an oft-repeated internet cliché. You could in fact replace "cannabis" and "schizoprehnia" with "foo" and "bar" and you'd have a template for a shallow dismissal of published studies.

I disagree that because something is generic and oft-repeated, that it is shallow or cannot teach.

> You could in fact replace "cannabis" and "schizoprehnia" with "foo" and "bar" and you'd have a template for a shallow dismissal of published studies.

Indeed, replacing with foo and bar would be valid, and the fact that this is the case, i.e. that correlation is not evidence of causation in general, remains a deep and important statement about reality. It is particularly important to correct this when the headline is direct misinformation about what the study found. Do you think code snippets using foo/bar as placeholders are shallow or uninformative? There is a good reason they are often used in programming discussions: to demonstrate that whatever is being shown applies in general.

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