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Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

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Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#261

Post by seydor »

shanebellone wrote: post #186
seydor wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? The internet looks old. A teenager in the 90s, aged fast in the 2000s, got a family in 2010s and now is seeking to police everyone through its retirement.

The medium hasn't changed. We're still on "Version 1".

We see versions but maybe there's a lifecycle to every medium. I m sure when TV was invented people made blue-sky predictions about how it would change the world for the better and not become the means that rich people use to rule over democratic audiences. The internet we know was the medium of one-to-all communication but it seems we -very soon- stumbled on the limits of such communication with all the censorship & tracking . Maybe the next medium will use some other mode, where one-to-all does not matter anymore

And while the internet changed societies, it did not "change societies", as in the western world democracies function pretty much as they did in the 80s, but with digital tools instead of analog. We did not see huge changes like when printing was invented: The world map is still the same

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#262

Post by jacooper »

chasd00 wrote: post #138
jacooper wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did the audience ever want that? Its rather a movement that companies just ran with, and audience tolerated or ignored.

If corporations don’t play along they certainly get punished for it. The audience expects them to be onboard or else.

When was that the case? Its not the audience really, but someone or something else.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#263

Post by jacooper »

gbN025tt2Z1E2E4 wrote: post #86
jacooper wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean going from mainstream to counter culture is a bit of a downgrade isn't it?

Not really. Youth tend to gravitate toward counter-culture naturally as a form of rebellion against their parents growing up. Having kids going toward traditional values is exactly what this society needs to begin the healing process.

Interesting, I'm not as positive as you are, but time will tell, I hope you are right!, because I agree things have gotten out of whack.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#264

Post by jacooper »

throwaway4aday wrote: post #153
jacooper wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But mastodon doesn't hate the mainstream, that's the difference, HN for example obviously isn't mainstream, and for one reason, the UI. Its made on purpose to stop nontechnical people from joining

HN has a pretty large population of mainstream people. Bigger than ever I would say.

Compared to something like reddit? Its more like a subreddit of some sort

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#265

Post by alldayeveryday »

drewcon wrote: post #114

I’m going to get flamed for this but at this point the closest we’re getting to counter culture is the exact opposite… “Trads”. Young people with super traditional values doing exactly the opposite of most of what you just listed. No one would seriously suggest the trendiest most mainstream supported or glorified lifestyles (van life, queerness, gig work) are counter culture…that IS the culture; there’s very little c…

Another hard agree. I always get a good laugh when people in queer culture claim to be living a counter culture lifestyle. Meanwhile the US state department is flying the queer flag at its embassies around the world and using it to agitate foreign conservative cultures.

I nominate being an unapologetic white male as the counter culture of our current time. Just watch how many downvotes you'll get on any social media platform for having this position.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#266

Post by ramesh31 »

no-dr-onboard wrote: post #200
no-dr-onboard wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard agree. It’s ironic how tone deaf the article comes off, but I suppose that’s another observation for another time. Another point on trads being a counter culture: You can tell a counterculture is real by the presence of posers and wannabes. Trad culture has this too. Ex: men who hide behind marble statue pfps and are actually single dudes living in a big city.

I think also that “trad” is an umbrella to which many hands hold. Tradcath: traditional lifestyle Catholics Trad homeschoolers: arguably some of the most steadfast and longest holding countercultures. They literally have children and raise them opposite or tangential to the current culture norms. Trad Christian theonomist: complimentarian views on marriage, anti secular government, often homesteaders. Trad chads: men…

>Trad chads: men pursuing lives of purity at any social cost. Staunchly opposed to todays hookup culture and LGBT influences.

I see this becoming the norm in the future. Hook up culture is simply too dangerous (for both men and women) to be sustainable long term. It's a cultural hangover from the days of "free love" that simply does not map to the modern world anymore.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#267

Post by alldayeveryday »

gfaregan wrote: post #203
drewcon wrote: post #114

I’m going to get flamed for this but at this point the closest we’re getting to counter culture is the exact opposite… “Trads”. Young people with super traditional values doing exactly the opposite of most of what you just listed. No one would seriously suggest the trendiest most mainstream supported or glorified lifestyles (van life, queerness, gig work) are counter culture…that IS the culture; there’s very little c…

I think your social standing has a lot more to do with money than behavior. If you're rich and live in a van you're interesting, otherwise you're just homeless. If your gig is a successful business you're independent, if it's Uber you're barely surviving.

Disagree. I think your social status has more to do with your conformity to neoliberal values than it does money. Sure, money can buy nice things and attract friends. Just look at Kanye.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#268

Post by pram »

nemo44x wrote: post #162
neonnoodle wrote: post #71

The medium is the message dudes. At this point in history, what will qualify a true counterculture is NOT BEING ONLINE. Whatever the true counterculture will be, it won’t be subject to the Internet and its all-seeing eye. It won’t be made out of memes and flame wars. No matter what the political bent, we’re all very much a captive audience online. “Master’s house/master’s tools” and all that.

People should read “Gravity's Rainbow” - or at least an analysis of it. A major point/theme is that no matter what you do, if it’s useful/profitable/empowering/etc then it will be co-opted by “the man” or whatever. There’s a never ending graveyard of counter culture artifacts that existed to spit on the mainstream that were nearly merged in, packaged, and sold back to the hordes of consumers that think they’re outsid…

This process has been called "recuperation"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recuperation_(politics)

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#269

Post by xwolfi »

drewcon wrote: post #114

I’m going to get flamed for this but at this point the closest we’re getting to counter culture is the exact opposite… “Trads”. Young people with super traditional values doing exactly the opposite of most of what you just listed. No one would seriously suggest the trendiest most mainstream supported or glorified lifestyles (van life, queerness, gig work) are counter culture…that IS the culture; there’s very little c…

But it's not more a problem than the LSD-heavy semi hoboes partying in woodstock in the 70s: both interrogate us on how far we should go in our ways, propose ridiculously extreme alternatives we have to compromise with.

Letting the trads speak a bit more might shock us just as much as the past minorities shocked our forefathers, but look where are: we evolved have't we ? Maybe we can ditch some dictat we imposed on ourselves in our chase for ever deeper reactionary counter-traditionalism.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#270

Post by PuppyTailWags »

alldayeveryday wrote: post #265
drewcon wrote: post #114

I’m going to get flamed for this but at this point the closest we’re getting to counter culture is the exact opposite… “Trads”. Young people with super traditional values doing exactly the opposite of most of what you just listed. No one would seriously suggest the trendiest most mainstream supported or glorified lifestyles (van life, queerness, gig work) are counter culture…that IS the culture; there’s very little c…

Another hard agree. I always get a good laugh when people in queer culture claim to be living a counter culture lifestyle. Meanwhile the US state department is flying the queer flag at its embassies around the world and using it to agitate foreign conservative cultures. I nominate being an unapologetic white male as the counter culture of our current time. Just watch how many downvotes you'll get on any social media…

Really confused by this statement. I think queer culture can be countercultural depending. For example legislation is currently up in some states to ban dressing in a way outside your sex because drag queens exist, but even though drag queens have a tv show and a movie and stuff I'm sure it'll also probably scoop a butch lesbian or two or just a regular tomboy woman.
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