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Emergency SOS via satellite

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Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#261

Post by bredren »

jmbwell wrote: post #120

Set backcountry search and rescue aside for a second. Seems to me this is for ordinary people doing ordinary things outside cell range, and finding they need help. A family member has a heart attack. A collision with a moose. Who knows what. Less “should’ve brought water and a jacket” and more “we’ve been on route 9 for two hours, a moment ago everything was fine, now he’s not breathing, we have no bars, and we have…

This reminds me of the unfortunate death of CNET reporter, James Kim in 2006.

Kim and his family were stranded on a rural route traveling from Portland to San Francisco. He went out in search of help and succumbed to hypothermia.

It was unusual, however there are "backcountry" incidents that don't necessarily involve intentionally setting out into remote areas.

I suspect, being a tech reporter, Kim would have had a satellite SOS enabled smartphone if it had been on the market.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kim#Snowbound

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#262

Post by bombcar »

dpkirchner wrote: post #171
swores wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Besides, even if this feature only saves a single life, seems worth it to me. Not that I think it will only save a single life, but if that really were the full extent of its benefit that of course it wouldn't be worth it - think of the millions Apple have spent on R&D plus the (presumably tiny but it adds up when selling millions of devices) extra cost per device - there are many ways that money could have been sp…

This seems somewhat contrarian -- what changes can Apple make to their iPhones that could save millions of lives?

I daresay having them turn themselves off when the GPS detects they're moving at "driving speeds" would save some lives.

Sure it has "driving mode" but you can still override it.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#263

Post by nradov »

Alex3917 wrote: post #30
wstrange wrote: post #21

This is really going to eat into Garmin's Inreach market (ditto for Spot, Zoleo, etc). It says free for the first 2 years. I'm curious what the yearly cost will be after that, and how it will compare to an Inreach plan. On an ongoing basis, it's the subscription fees that really add up.

The bigger threat to Garmin is probably just the new GPS. There are probably a lot of folks who will now put off buying their first bike computer for a couple years now that an iPhone with Strava is going to be almost as accurate as an Edge 530 or whatever. Having a real bike computer is still going to be better, but by significantly less than it was a year ago.

Some cyclists do already use iPhones with the Strava app as bike computers but they don't work very well. The third-party mounts are kind of janky, battery life is terrible, screen visibility is poor in some lighting conditions, and they don't support the ANT+ industry standard for common sensors such as power meters. An iPhone is adequate for casual use, but Garmin isn't really trying to target that market anyway. Those casual cyclists don't care about recording precise GPS tracks.

The latest high-end Garmin devices do support multi-frequency GPS just as accurate as the iPhone 14. Those chips aren't included in Garmin's mid-range products like Edge 5XX/8XX series bike computers but will probably be added in the next refresh.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#264

Post by GaryNumanVevo »

Hippocrates wrote: post #207

Apple is building up a nice portfolio of life-saving features. Currently we have fall detection, a-fib detection, crash detection, satellite communication. These are all solid value-adds and differentiators from the competition. I'm not sure if they amount to a strong selling point for _everyone_ yet, but I'm sure that's where Apple is headed. I am extremely bullish on Apple's ability to measure health signals in the…

The Apple watch has literally saved 3 of my older relative's lives already. It's amazing technology!

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#265

Post by carabiner »

subsubzero wrote: post #240
Buttons840 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does InReach require a monthly cost? Alternatively, you can spend about $200 one time on a personal locator beacon that requires no ongoing costs. It can't do two-way communication but activating it sends out a specific frequency picked up by satellites and is the equivalent of calling 911. Rescuers will come to help you. All serious hikers and outdoor adventurers should carry a personal locator beacon.

It does, I have the fancier inReach - the one that can make calls and texts without being tethered to an iphone. The service runs $15 a month for the basic service and scales up depending on how many texts a month you want to use. I wouldn't ditch it for an iphone 14 as it is way more rugged and in really cold climates(I live near the mountains) a iphone will rapidly discharge its battery and will be useless. I final…

Which Inreach model allows voice calls?

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#266

Post by Matt3o12_ »

bombcar wrote: post #262
dpkirchner wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems somewhat contrarian -- what changes can Apple make to their iPhones that could save millions of lives?

I daresay having them turn themselves off when the GPS detects they're moving at "driving speeds" would save some lives. Sure it has "driving mode" but you can still override it.

So when I ride the bus or train, I'm allowed to use my phone? What about when I use an uber (or lift or any of the many many other local alternatives)?

Not everyone that moves at driving speeds is driving, especially in places outside of America.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#267

Post by tony_cannistra »

Buttons840 wrote: post #154
COGlory wrote: post #123

I was just on the ground coordinating with 4 friends that got buried in 5+ foot of unexpected snow in the mountains (forecast said 1"-2" when they went up) for the rifle opener in Montana. I wound up getting sick so I stayed home (hilariously I was the only one who got an elk) but I sent them up with my InReach. All I can say is THANK GOD that I did, because it turned into over a week long effort to get them out. Two…

Does InReach require a monthly cost? Alternatively, you can spend about $200 one time on a personal locator beacon that requires no ongoing costs. It can't do two-way communication but activating it sends out a specific frequency picked up by satellites and is the equivalent of calling 911. Rescuers will come to help you. All serious hikers and outdoor adventurers should carry a personal locator beacon.

Actually, I'm not sure this is good advice. Two-way commiunicators are vastly preferred by Search and Rescue organizations.

The reason for this is that they can learn about what they need to do and who they need to send to you, because they can ask you.

If you have a broken leg, they'll send in 10 people to get you out. Dehydrated? Two responders and water.

Calls that come in from "dumb" communicators like PLBs are more likely to get a 1-2 person "hasty" team assigned to them who can arrive quickly then call in more reinforcements if necessary. A SAR org. isn't going to put 10 volunteers on a PLB call that ends up being a rolled ankle, at least not immediately.

This has the potential to greatly delay the time to care for you, especially for more severe emergencies.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#268

Post by GekkePrutser »

jabroni_salad wrote: post #242
dont__panic wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any personal locator beacon recommendations? It's one of those items that I could very much use during bike touring, hiking, and bikepacking... but I've never bought one because it seems like a very large cost for something I won't even test until it is a matter of life and death. Out of curiosity... is there any way to alert your local emergency department in advance of testing a beacon, so you can verify that it wo…

For PLB I am pretty sure it's universal. For messengers (like the inreach), find out what people in your geo use between iridium or SPOT because satellite coverage can vary. For example, I have heard that in alaska SPOT's only geostationary sat is really low on the southern horizon and anything that breaks LOS will interfere with the device. For PLB specifically you cannot test them. Once you activate them, they cont…

> I have heard that in alaska SPOT's only geostationary sat is really low on the southern horizon and anything that breaks LOS will interfere with the device.

Any geostationary sat would be low on the southern horizon in Alaska. That's just how geostationary orbits work, they are over the equator. Though pretty high above (35.000km/22.000mi). So it's still visible there but yeah you need a clear view of the southern horizon.

But Globalstar which runs the service for SPOT only has low earth orbit sats which are definitely not geostationary. They're only at a few hundred kilometers.

However it could very well be that their orbits are aligned so that they are always pretty low to the south from Alaska, yes.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#269

Post by exabrial »

COGlory wrote: post #123

I was just on the ground coordinating with 4 friends that got buried in 5+ foot of unexpected snow in the mountains (forecast said 1"-2" when they went up) for the rifle opener in Montana. I wound up getting sick so I stayed home (hilariously I was the only one who got an elk) but I sent them up with my InReach. All I can say is THANK GOD that I did, because it turned into over a week long effort to get them out. Two…

Interesting observation: You prevented a "uh oh" from turning into an "we're dying" state. It sounds like your friends are pretty hardened for the backcountry, and they needed to get out, but it wasn't life-threatening (at the time). Something we should consider while designing these systems. I think the pricepoint of InReach services certainly prevent casual usage (sending memes, browsing instagram) but allows sufficient communication at a reasonable price to coordinate safely.

Also, with 5ft of snow coming down, I have my doubts an iPhone would be able to reach out and touch a satellite. It'll be interesting to see some tests.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#270

Post by nickpp »

alphakilo wrote: post #76
wstrange wrote: post #21

This is really going to eat into Garmin's Inreach market (ditto for Spot, Zoleo, etc). It says free for the first 2 years. I'm curious what the yearly cost will be after that, and how it will compare to an Inreach plan. On an ongoing basis, it's the subscription fees that really add up.

Echoing others, I don't think this will have a huge impact as iPhone SOS is a last resort for those who are unprepared Garmin inReach is a robust and rugged satellite communicator that out classes iPhone emergency SOS greatly - inreach doesn't require "tracking" the satellite as it has a stronger antenna - inreach is more waterproof, dust proof atd shock resistant (no touch screen) - inreach has higher battery life,…

> Garmin inReach is a robust and rugged satellite communicator

I own one and when I brought it on a remote expedition I found it to be a buggy POS: duplicated messages, stuck connection requiring resets, garbled messages.

That being said, the current iPhone 14 satellite function wouldn’t have worked at all for my purpose in those circumstances.

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