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Emergency SOS via satellite

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Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#241

Post by lxgr »

Buttons840 wrote: post #217
masom wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

InReach, and any users (other brands offering competing two-way communicators) of the Iridium satellite network, have ongoing fees. They're rather small compared to someone dying in the wilderness.

My point was that you can avoid dying in the wilderness with an even cheaper PLB.

PLBs are great and definitely better than not carrying any emergency communications device at all, but they can ultimately only send out a binary signal: "I need help at location x/y".

There's a lot of situations in which I'd appreciate being able to call help without possibly triggering an expensive helicopter SAR operation, when sending a park ranger would be more than sufficient (e.g. a sprained ankle a mile off the trailhead when solo hiking).

Another advantage of two-way communicators is being able to get instructions from the SAR team: It can be vital to know whether you should e.g. go to higher ground (because your signal has not been received yet) or conversely seek shelter from the elements for a couple of hours. Newer PLBs partially solve that problem though, thanks to Galileo's "blue light" return channel.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#242

Post by jabroni_salad »

dont__panic wrote: post #168
Buttons840 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does InReach require a monthly cost? Alternatively, you can spend about $200 one time on a personal locator beacon that requires no ongoing costs. It can't do two-way communication but activating it sends out a specific frequency picked up by satellites and is the equivalent of calling 911. Rescuers will come to help you. All serious hikers and outdoor adventurers should carry a personal locator beacon.

Any personal locator beacon recommendations? It's one of those items that I could very much use during bike touring, hiking, and bikepacking... but I've never bought one because it seems like a very large cost for something I won't even test until it is a matter of life and death. Out of curiosity... is there any way to alert your local emergency department in advance of testing a beacon, so you can verify that it wo…

For PLB I am pretty sure it's universal. For messengers (like the inreach), find out what people in your geo use between iridium or SPOT because satellite coverage can vary. For example, I have heard that in alaska SPOT's only geostationary sat is really low on the southern horizon and anything that breaks LOS will interfere with the device.

For PLB specifically you cannot test them. Once you activate them, they continually broadcast and cannot be canceled except by destroying the device. For messengers, they hook up to a web service and you can send messages to personal email or SMS via the sat network as your test.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#243

Post by arb-spreads »

COGlory wrote: post #123

I was just on the ground coordinating with 4 friends that got buried in 5+ foot of unexpected snow in the mountains (forecast said 1"-2" when they went up) for the rifle opener in Montana. I wound up getting sick so I stayed home (hilariously I was the only one who got an elk) but I sent them up with my InReach. All I can say is THANK GOD that I did, because it turned into over a week long effort to get them out. Two…

Agreed. Similar to the invention of seatbelts and other safety devices, safer technology induces risker behavior.

Would be unfortunate to have an over-reliance on emergency services aided by these tools.

Offer a few free texts a year and then charge like 5 bucks to text for a day or something.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#245

Post by jzwinck »

ghaff wrote: post #210
jzwinck wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont own this but it is pretty much the standard: https://www.acrartex.com/products/resqlink-400/ These devices require a new battery every few years and that service includes a test done by the manufacturer. There is also a self test button on the device which does not send a message to the satellites. If you really feel the need to send test messages into space, they do support that but then you need a subscripti…

>PLB users generally do trust that their devices work the first time they're used for real, and this trust is backed up by a lot of real world use. Although they are not foolproof. See for example the story of Kate Matrosova. [1] Basically, mountain shadows made the location readings erratic which, in combination with extremely bad weather, meant rescuers couldn't find her. [1] https://www3.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015…

I only meant that the devices, if properly maintained, can be trusted to do their job as best they can and not say "PC LOAD LETTER" and expect you to troubleshoot it. A successful rescue is never guaranteed.

Those of us who are programmers usually default to "If it's not tested end to end, it won't work," and that is the sentiment I was responding to.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#246

Post by Temporary_31337 »

zikduruqe wrote: post #97
vikR0001 wrote: post #92

How can a little iPhone possibly have enough power to transmit data all the distance to a satellite?

Space isn't that far away. It's only 60 miles. I've communicated via LEO satellites using only 1 watt of power from an handheld radio.

1 whole watt is a lot by modern, digital standards, but satellite does not have a directional antenna with gain to receive your signal. It looks like Garmin InReach transmits at 1.6Watts. I wonder what the radio is inside the new iPhones.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#247

Post by CarbonCycles »

cookingmyserver wrote: post #180
stagger87 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to point the phone at the sky for long periods of time AND track the sat position in the sky while you do it. It's probably some long spread spectrum approach (lots of processing gain), as well as I'm sure a bunch of other cool tricks/techniques.

Does anyone know how they track the position of the communication satellites? I assume they use GPS for the users position, the gyro and accelerometer for device orientation, and then periodically load and update the LEO sat paths on the device when they are connected. Or is the antenna able to estimate LEO position via a signal the LEO sats sends out?

The positions of the satellites are well known and documented. Fun fact..on the Garmin fenix watches, it is recommended that you synch your watch with your Garmin Connect app every few days (week) so that you download the latest satellites position file, which significantly improves the GPS lock time with the satellites before you begin an activity.

As others have stated, I don't think Apple's product will really erode Garmin's market share for several years. The lack of detailed topo maps and applications will severely hamper them.

With Apple latest shift, I see their ecosystem as a very strong contender for business travel (international news reporter?) that requires strong security (lockdown mode), ability to communicate in many form factors through adverse conditions (voice, data and now satellite), and has a slew of safety features (crash detection).

Garmin has decades of experience regarding outdoor travel and safety that Apple would always be playing catchup...IMO.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#248

Post by tyingq »

Hippocrates wrote: post #207

Apple is building up a nice portfolio of life-saving features. Currently we have fall detection, a-fib detection, crash detection, satellite communication. These are all solid value-adds and differentiators from the competition. I'm not sure if they amount to a strong selling point for _everyone_ yet, but I'm sure that's where Apple is headed. I am extremely bullish on Apple's ability to measure health signals in the…

>At some point iPhone and Apple Watch will probably be marketed as the devices you need if you don't wish to die early.

Or you'll have to turn over your data to get the reasonable health insurance rates and not fall in the risky rate bucket.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#249

Post by SkyPuncher »

jmbwell wrote: post #120

Set backcountry search and rescue aside for a second. Seems to me this is for ordinary people doing ordinary things outside cell range, and finding they need help. A family member has a heart attack. A collision with a moose. Who knows what. Less “should’ve brought water and a jacket” and more “we’ve been on route 9 for two hours, a moment ago everything was fine, now he’s not breathing, we have no bars, and we have…

My wife and I frequently drive through Michigan's upper peninsula. Weather can be extremely rough in the winter time with many spots of poor/no service.

While we hope to never use it, we think this feature is a game changer for rural travel.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#250

Post by barbazoo »

nickcw wrote: post #100

From the small print > The service will be included for free for two years starting at the time of activation of a new iPhone 14, iPhone 14 Plus, iPhone 14 Pro, and iPhone 14 Pro Max. Which kind of implies it will be a pay for service after two years.

As a user I'd 100% expect it to no longer be free after 2 years. It's pretty clear from the copy and shouldn't surprise anyone.

I think it's a shitty thing to do to not at least say what the cost will be at least given today's information.

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