Suicide • Hacker News Board

Re: Suicide

#261

Post by yters » Thu, Dec 15, 2011, 2:15 AM UTC

thedark wrote: post #116

Jun8 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever I find myself having similar thoughts I reread Willa Cather's story, "Paul's Case", here's the relevant part, the very end: "He stood watching the approaching locomotive, his teeth chattering, his lips drawn away from them in a frightened smile; once or twice he glanced nervously sidewise, as though he were being watched. When the right moment came, he jumped. As he fell, the folly of his haste occurred to h…

Okay, so the last few years I've had time and means to travel, and I'd like to comment somewhat on a perspective I gained while doing so. The list you gave- I've done all of those things. Well, change Machu Picchu to Pompeii and Somalia to the Congo. I realize your list was not comprehensive- but let me realize the spirit of your post and say I've done a large subset of the "things I'd like to do before I die," save…

I've experienced something similar, not as bad as you. But, some things have helped me. I'm sorry if this is somewhat cliche, but based on my own thought and decisions I've continued my faith in Jesus and God from my childhood, and this is also consoling.

On the other side, I've almost if not completely become an atheist at one point, and even then I realized that suicide was too final a choice for how little I knew about reality. In fact, atheism also consoled me, in that the thought that nothing lay beyond death meant I needn't fear death, nor anything in life, at least rationally (instinctual fear remains).

Finally, starting from an atheist perspective, that I didn't need to fear life, I realized I was searching for something that I haven't found yet, and that is a large part of why I've felt bad. Suicide again was too final and inadequate an answer to that desire inside of me. My desire and ignorance of reality give me hope I will find what I am seeking, and even the seeking is fulfilling to a degree.

Re: Suicide

#262

Post by stinkytaco » Thu, Dec 15, 2011, 3:54 AM UTC

dkersten wrote: post #255

stinkytaco wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, this post is still on the front page... I waver a lot on the "Suicide is a selfish act" business. On one hand you're right, it's your life an no one can obligate you to live it. It's very empowering to know that you've got the option to end it. On the other, someone out there needs you more than you think. And I still don't believe a person who wants to end their life is totally rational, at least not for the m…

Suicide is a selfish act Is it any less selfish of others to force you to stay around and endure terrible pain (physical or emotional) because they need you? I certainly agree that you can and should get help, but I also think that there are cases when the "suicide is selfish" people are the selfish ones. Though, I'm sure that they're not as common as the cases where the person should have sought help instead, I don'…

It would make them feel worse, it's a stupid thing to say to someone at the time they are dealing with it. But, and perhaps this is survivor bias, I don't know anyone who was suicidal who didn't eventually end up getting past that. Maybe the ones who go through with it are the ones who truly cannot deal with it, but I doubt it. Suicide is permanent solution to a temporary problem. I hope those people can get help.

Re: Suicide

#263

Post by yters » Thu, Dec 15, 2011, 5:39 AM UTC

cynest wrote: post #183

knowtheory wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't delete it. I also felt Reg was off the mark (although perhaps not to the extent that you do), but that's why i messaged him what i thought was the real issue. I think it's important to communicate what that feeling is. So many people misunderstand the actual nature of suicidal tendencies. They think that it's just about someone feeling alone, or unhappy or whatever. But those feelings all have "normal" a…

> True depression is knowing that not being is an option equally viable to being. There's a quote by David Foster Wallace that states it better: "The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn't do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life's assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible…

I think there is always hope and a way forward. The flames are real and terrible, but there is always a way. Trust in Jesus. He is there for you.

Re: Suicide

#264

Post by xibernetik » Thu, Dec 15, 2011, 6:25 AM UTC

cj wrote: post #161

xibernetik wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For many people, what you say rings true, but it's dangerous to imply that that these feelings are purely a product of someone's thinking and that they can fix them on their own. There are people who, no matter how much they sit down and think things through, try and sort out their problems, etc, are going to feeling depressed -- likely due to chemical imbalances and structural differences in the brain. Thinking abou…

" There are people who, no matter how much they sit down and think things through, try and sort out their problems, etc, are going to feeling depressed " Although you're probably right, it's also dangerous to promote that viewpoint. A depressed person accepting themselves as inevitably and irreversibly depressed is not productive, even if that's the case. It's not analogous to being gay where you can accept it and li…

You're wrong about not being able to live happily ever after: It's never accepting you'll be forever unhappy -- it's accepting you can't be without aid or intervention (e.g. medication, therapy, etc). I never stated that they're doomed to feel depressed, just that they're doomed to feel depressed if they don't do something other than sit and think. Depression tends to lead to a lot of rumination anyways, so it probably will seem pretty ridiculous to them to be told to be more introspective.

To clarify, I put those (schizophrenia, homosexuality, transgender) as examples of brain structure and wiring (just like clinical depression) and mentioned homosexuality explicitly because it seems less stigmatized than mental illness currently. A gay person can accept being gay and live a happy life, but they can't think themselves into being straight if they try hard enough. An individual diagnosed with major depressive disorder can accept they are clinically depressed and require treatment, then take the treatment and live a happy life, but they can't think themselves into not requiring outside aid to be in a non-depressed state. Society is a lot more accepting of the gay person than the depressed one though.

Re: Suicide

#265

Post by ypcx » Thu, Dec 15, 2011, 7:03 AM UTC

knowtheory wrote: post #169

sophacles wrote: post #162

So heres my experience with this whole topic: When I was very young, I remember feeling trapped in life. It wasn't a particularly terrible life, but not a particularly great one either. There were times when I just didn't want it. As I got older, I spent a lot of time mildly depressed. There were expectations I couldn't live up to, it seemed my family wanted me to be perfect, and the repercussions for not being so we…

Please don't delete it. I also felt Reg was off the mark (although perhaps not to the extent that you do), but that's why i messaged him what i thought was the real issue. I think it's important to communicate what that feeling is. So many people misunderstand the actual nature of suicidal tendencies. They think that it's just about someone feeling alone, or unhappy or whatever. But those feelings all have "normal" a…

Throughout my life, I have observed that the "nature of suicidal tendencies", which I think falls into the broader category called depression, is in fact nothing more than energetic deficiency. I'm of course talking about the kind of energy most of us know for a fact that it exists, but which is not scientifically proven and the mainstream health care system doesn't work with it. I think chinese call it Chi. I found out that a daily practice of a very simple visualization technique, where one closes eyes and imagines colored spheres at the 7 points of their body where the "main chakras" are said to be located, this energetic deficiency can be beaten to the level where it's not a problem anymore. Also, depression is not the only thing this works on, for example you can use this after you have eaten something your body finds hard to process, and basically to help solve any other problem. But you have to take a good care to not overdo it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakra

Re: Suicide

#266

Post by partition » Thu, Dec 15, 2011, 7:31 AM UTC

DanielGeisler wrote: post #207

I have profound problems with the standard yada yada about suicide. Yes I believe that life is precious and in my teens I spent a number of years as a volunteer working the phones in crisis centers, so I do know the whole rap. But if life is truly precious our society should treat it as being precious with deeds as well as cheap talk. Society has gutted the mental health system, here in Santa Rosa, CA the two existin…

Very well said. I agree, it seems that in this society mental illness, depression and suicidality are more used as a label to further ostracize those in distress instead of as a signal to actually take steps to help them while they can still be helped.

Re: Suicide

#267

Post by partition » Thu, Dec 15, 2011, 7:37 AM UTC

vonskippy wrote: post #134

Suicide gets a bad rap. With 7 billion plus people on a planet that can't support half that number why are we encouraging these sad sacks to stay alive? Unique? Really, out of 7 billion plus people is anyone really all that special? If you're not enjoying the ride - get off now - and let people who are have a bit more space (and resources). Suicide might be the only memorable thing you do in your sorry existence, so…

I actually think this is a completely valid viewpoint, and the people downvoting you and criticizing you are more signaling their supposed moral superiority---suicide and depression is a topic people love to brag about how supportive and real they supposedly are but the person who actually lifts a finger to help, probably 1 in a million of these people.

Thank you for keeping it real and saying words that are hard to hear but quite accurately describe the situation: suicidal people are rejects of the socio-economic system, and it's fucking hilarious that so many of us get indignant about suicide while, operating in this system, being active or passive agents in contributing to the suicide of others around them.

Re: Suicide

#268

Post by hessenwolf » Thu, Dec 15, 2011, 7:49 AM UTC

justaname wrote: post #240

nyellin wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry to hear your story. You deserve better. Remember that you have all the options in the world. If life is only be worth living with a fresh start, sell your apartment, take one suitcase, and travel to Paris or London or Australia. Your life is yours to do what you wish, not what others expect. Live in whatever way makes life worthwhile. If you ever want someone to talk to, you can email me at aantny@gmail.com…

Wow, cool offer :) Australia's my next destination. The place I used to call home and will again soon. It's my light at the end of the tunnel, for the moment.

Did you move to England?

Re: Suicide

#269

Post by hessenwolf » Thu, Dec 15, 2011, 7:53 AM UTC

paganel wrote: post #98

[deleted] wrote: post #37

[deleted]

Hang in there, Avner! I'm also in the middle of a divorce which would have seemed like a very bad joke had someone told me about it 9 months ago, but that's life. I don't have any good advice, I can tell you a couple of things that I'm currently doing that sort of help me go through this pit of despair. First of all, I'm trying to leave my past life behind me, that is I try to connect with my future ex wife and her p…

Yeah... keping off alcohol was the first thing that occured to me. It has been fve months and I am still walking dead. Does anybody know how long hefore it starts to go away?

Re: Suicide

#270

Post by justaname » Thu, Dec 15, 2011, 8:20 AM UTC

hessenwolf wrote: post #268

justaname wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, cool offer :) Australia's my next destination. The place I used to call home and will again soon. It's my light at the end of the tunnel, for the moment.

Did you move to England?

Nope, Switzerland. The people here don't have the concept of having your back. They figure, if it doesn't affect their person directly, they're better off keeping to themselves. The neutrality of the country matches the way they deal with day-to-day problems within the country. This is an over generalisation, because there are some wonderful people here, like everywhere, but the general attitude that I've seen is the one I've described. If you don't fit the standard mould, or can't fake it, you won't be very successful here, and the standard mould is extremely conservative.

One of the important lessons I learnt growing up in Australia was that you have to be there for your mates, even if you have to put your body on the line. I've seen what can happen when you don't and I'll never allow that again, if I can help it.