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Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

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Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#261

Post by scoofy »

Markoff wrote: post #232
scoofy wrote: post #63

I listen to TWiV, and the prominent virologists there are suggesting that we don't actually know what to do. In some of the latest episodes, they discuss frankly the fact that yearly boosters may or may not actually have any meaningful impact for normal healthy folks. They get into the details of why we know annual influenza boosters are effective, and that we really don't know yet whether COVID boosters will have th…

> They get into the details of why we know annual influenza boosters are effective, and that we really don't know yet whether COVID boosters will have the same effect. Let me stop you right there, let's quote famous antivaxxer site called CDC: "Recent studies show flu vaccine can reduce the risk of flu illness by between 40% and 60% among the overall population during seasons when most circulating flu viruses are wel…

The entire point of my post is that parroting CDC statements without context and nuance is legitimately counterproductive.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#262

Post by lovich »

logicchains wrote: post #201
lovich wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn’t say they weren’t cancelled, he said that their claim that you can’t have any disagreements with the party line or you get cancelled. Anti vaxxers tend to not discuss nuanced details and instead come out with unsubstantiated claims like “vaccines cause autism” which is going to get most people to stop listening to them

>Anti vaxxers tend to not discuss nuanced details and instead come out with unsubstantiated claims like “vaccines cause autism” which is going to get most people to stop listening to them Have you actually read any of the publications by prominent anti-vax scientists? For instance, https://www.researchgate.net/publication/359989585_Innate_im... is hardly lacking in nuanced details or full of unsubstantiated claims, n…

I’m finding it difficult to summon the energy to read through these fully when the abstract of the first link has a political dog whistle[1] in the abstract before it gets to any actual hypothesis or claims. Finishing the abstract I see they end it with this sentence[2], implying this isn’t even original research? Is this actual research or a statistical analysis of the VAERS database?

This second link is even worse, it’s a blogpost with a a short paper riddled with citations linking to other blogposts from the same site making wild claims about how the vaccine actually makes things worse. I started on section 1 after his synopsis and he just points to a diagram included in his paper and then trots out the debunked anti vaxxer claim of

> vaccinees are now increasingly becoming asymptomatic shedders of SC-2.

There is no data or citation supporting that beyond his diagram. He just makes a claim and then starts making logical leaps off that claim.

This is the kind of “evidence” that makes everyone groan and roll their eyes when people claim that the anti vaxxers actually have proof and no one’s paying attention to them because it’s a conspiracy or doesn’t toe the party line. I am legitimately upset that I gave you the benefit of the doubt and wasted my time reading through these just to find out that your claims are as weakly supported as I had assumed.

[1]the sentence below, anti vaxxers commonly bring up lack of precedent as a reason the vaccines can’t possibly work

> The utilization of mRNA vaccines in the context of infectious disease has no precedent.

[2] > We show evidence from the VAERS database supporting our hypothesis.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#263

Post by mcv »

cm2187 wrote: post #231
mcv wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A problem is also that both anti-vaxxers and climate change deniers have a tendency to interpret any nuanced discussion as proof that the expert don't know either and therefore it's all a lie. It's an incredibly destructive attitude to any honest discourse.

But you can't negate the fact that we have also been told a lot of bullshit. I remember the same speech in Jan 2022 where the health minister of France explained that covid was dangerous for children and therefore they will mandate vaccinating children, immediately followed by the minister of education explaining that covid isn't dangerous for children, that the number of children hospitalised for covid is less than…

That's exactly my point: if you demand that people only speak absolute truths and take any disagreement as a sign that people are intentionally lying, then you're killing any honest constructive discussion.

Clearly there was a disagreement about the danger it posed to children, and perhaps more importantly: the danger that infected children would pose for the adults around them. Because that's another frequently ignored issue: vaccination is not just about protecting the individual, but about protecting the community.

But that disagreement doesn't mean that someone is lying, and it certainly doesn't mean that everything is bullshit. It means that people disagree. And with a very new disease, that shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone. Now there was clearly also a lot of misinformation from various sources, including sometimes governments, but the only way to deal with that and figure out what's what is honest, open discussion by people who know what they're talking about.

Stop demanding absolutely truths about things we cannot yet know, and instead try to think constructively about what would be the best thing to do considering the lack of information we have to deal with.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#264

Post by trention »

dekhn wrote: post #87
tylerhou wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, do you mean no additional benefit for booster vaccines (not the original series)?

I don't know enough about the boosters yet (and nobody does). We'll have a better idea in January after the winter cycle is winding down.

And nobody knows enough about the flu vaccine currently yearly formulation in every year of the last 50+, but it was still recommended and administered to 40+% of US adults. Covid-related antivaxxism is just latent antivaxxers finally coming clean.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#265

Post by throwntoday »

noir_lord wrote: post #255
Markoff wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They get into the details of why we know annual influenza boosters are effective, and that we really don't know yet whether COVID boosters will have the same effect. Let me stop you right there, let's quote famous antivaxxer site called CDC: "Recent studies show flu vaccine can reduce the risk of flu illness by between 40% and 60% among the overall population during seasons when most circulating flu viruses are wel…

> So 40% efficacy IF WELL MATCHED to virus That's a disingenuous reading of the thing you just quoted. It's 40% to 60% if well matched - assuming that that the range is evenly distributed then the middle point is 50% not 40% and reducing overall risk of flu by 50% is a good thing since flu is much more a killer of the old and young (usually - there have been exceptions, 1918 Flu (aka Spanish Flu) killed younger peopl…

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding but is it not 40-60% effective if well matched and 0% effective otherwise?

Flu shot efficiacy is typically under 50% so if they guessed the wrong strains you happen to be exposed to that season it is totally worthless. There seems to be a common misconception that it will somehow help you even if they guessed the wrong ones but I'm not sure why that is so prevalent. If there are 5 viruses, and they got 4 of them, you still have 0% protection against the missing one.

I don't know why COVID would be any different.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#266

Post by wasmitnetzen »

DominikPeters wrote: post #45

It sounds like Danes over 50 can get a free vaccine, and those under are prohibited from getting one. Why can't we have a middle ground where young people can get a vaccine if they really want to (and e.g. pay for it themselves)? This mirrors the common thread in Covid policy where everything is either forbidden or compulsory.

Sweden does it that way (or at least my home region of Stockholm). 4th shot is only recommended for 65+ and 18+ with risk factors, but everyone 18+ can get it. It's free either way.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#267

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

canoebuilder wrote: post #240
comex wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation for boosters not working?

Citation for boosters not working? more people have died since the shots, than before, come on bro! It's staring you in the face https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/all-you-need-to-know-abo... What would you consider a worthy citation source, the same people who have lied or been wrong about everything to date?

Wow, that's a pretty weird misinterpretation of the data. My understanding is that almost 30% of the Israeli population refused to get vaccinated for religious reasons, which (even if you could make robust inferences from a chart like that) would throw the whole theory into doubt.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#268

Post by vie00001 »

tablespoon wrote: post #80
DominikPeters wrote: post #45

It sounds like Danes over 50 can get a free vaccine, and those under are prohibited from getting one. Why can't we have a middle ground where young people can get a vaccine if they really want to (and e.g. pay for it themselves)? This mirrors the common thread in Covid policy where everything is either forbidden or compulsory.

> It sounds like Danes over 50 can get a free vaccine, and those under are prohibited from getting one. Why can't we have a middle ground where young people can get a vaccine if they really want to (and e.g. pay for it themselves)? This mirrors the common thread in Covid policy where everything is either forbidden or compulsory. Yeah. It's insane if they prohibit under-50s from getting the vaccine. There are more rea…

“In addition, we recommend that relatives of persons at particularly higher risk accept the offer of vaccination to protect their relatives who are at particularly higher risk.” I think in this case you can get the vaccine

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#269

Post by reissbaker »

Kranar wrote: post #28
rossdavidh wrote: post #10

Bit by bit, it is becoming the new influenza. Not saying we're there yet, but that's clearly where we're headed. Now, influenza kills lots of people; in 2018 over 60,000 people were killed by influenza in the USA alone. But we don't have border closing or "show your papers" or all the rest for influenza, and we're not going to.

2018 was an exceptionally bad year for influenza. Typically influenza deaths in the U.S. are between 20-30k. COVID deaths in the U.S. over a two year period amounted to over 1 million.

That's a two-year period that doesn't include mass vaccination, and includes now-effectively-eliminated strains that were significantly more deadly than the current Omicron-based ones.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#270

Post by uwagar »

space_fountain wrote: post #212
uwagar wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Hey, that’s not how vaccines actually work. I think you’ve had fragments of the truth presented in a way to try to make you believe things that aren’t true. Vaccines aren’t a platform that can be triggered to do different things. It does use RNA which is cool because it allows for more rapid changes. The vaccine will mostly work with a wide variety of RNA payloads with the only difference being the exact antibodies i…

u are just reinforcing my understanding. so payloads, triggering and 'specific' products are all real. surely 'bugs' in this sequence are inevitable too with maybe devastating consequences for which no one is liable. who is to say the boosters are not updates that sneak in backdoors with additional 'features'? + these vaccines are peddled by for profit companies that refuse to share IP and emergency approved by govt agencies that have these company officers on their boards.... sorry, i refuse this workflow that treats my body like a phone that needs constant 'security' updates.
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