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Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

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Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#261

Post by njarboe »

squeebie23 wrote: post #158
dmix wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used a big cast iron pan on an electric stove for years. It takes a while to heat up but not to the point where it’s a large burden. I just love cooking everything with it, including eggs.

The weight of the cast iron also helps even out cooking on electric stovetops since they cycle the heat on and off.

Unfortunately with electric stovetops, pans only get heated under the electric source. I love my large cast iron frying pan but only getting heat in the center makes cooking with it a pain/doesn't work well. Gas stoves don't have this problem as the heat from the burner rises up and around the pan heating it all up.

Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#262

Post by stjohnswarts »

refactor_master wrote: post #190
throw8383833jj wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i guess it matters how much oil and butter you're adding.

I add heaps of oil, and never have trouble cleaning my stainless steel pans. But the whole “clean eating” thing seems to vilify any kind of cooking fat, and guests often give me the “guess we’re not on a diet today”. But from what I recall, cooking oil is not the thing driving the obesity pandemic, and the innocent muffin they had at work would easily be several multiples of the cooking oil, calorie-wise.

people are eating too much, plus sugar is really bad for humans and that's what is everywhere. Most of the danger of fats is gone with the vast reduction in amount of hydrogenated fats out there. Sugar is still king though.

Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#263

Post by stjohnswarts »

doctorhandshake wrote: post #194
chefandy wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get a nice carbon steel or cast iron pan nonstick enough to do things like classical omelets through seasoning alone. (Though the shape of cast iron generally makes it impractical in that particular example.) All the French old timers did. But they need to only be used for that and most home cooks aren't willing to have a pan they only use for one thing. Also, most home cooks-- even the ones that really think…

>> At the temperatures required to cook eggs, there's like zero danger using a modern teflon coated pan. It's the people cranking those pans up to smoking temperatures that you have to worry about. Citation?

go look it up, if you keep teflon (PTFE, and not PFOAs which are all but gone in pans less than 10 years old) under 500 you're golden. No one is going to give you a bibliography for something you can google easily in seconds.

Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#264

Post by justnotworthit »

hammock wrote: post #92
johnchristopher wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In order to make activated charcoal with all its nooks and crannies, regular carbon sources are transformed in one of two ways: either physically or chemically. > In physical activation, wood, coal, or any regular carbon source is first heated up to 600 to 900 degrees Celsius (1000 to 1600 degrees Fahrenheit) in a chamber filled with inert gas. The inert gas ensures that the carbon doesn’t burn. Instead, as the car…

Basic Steps Burn hardwood to make charcoal. Cool overnight. Powder the charcoal using a hammer or mortar and pestle. Add calcium chloride solution. Spread on a clean sheet or cheesecloth. Bake at 250 F for 30 minutes or until all moisture is entirely gone.

According to a trial in nicaragua, from memory (google it), 25%-50% salt solution; soak the charcoal (which is crushed to the point of not filtering too much through whatever filtering mechanism you're going to use) for 24 hours; let dry in the sun (plenty of sun in their trial, i assume baking is the same). (Can't remember if they rinsed).

Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#265

Post by krrrh »

pmulard wrote: post #103
elil17 wrote: post #2

The study didn’t actually find anything related to cookware. Modern Teflon in the US doesn’t expose people to PFOA/PFOS like old version did due to new regulations. The chemicals could also be entering peoples body’s through drinking water or bioaccumulation in meat or plants. You should throw away nonstick cookware from before 2013, but new nonstick cookware sold in the US does not have PFOA. I believe the EU follow…

I cook eggs on cast iron without them sticking, but it requires maintenance on the seasoning. The trick is to use some butter when cooking with eggs, and they slide right off. A quick wipe with a paper towel and the pan is clean (leaving butter residue helps keep it oiled for next time). Cast iron is a pain to clean if you burn food and the burnt pieces stick, but the investment into learning how to cook with it is w…

The most important thing I learned about cast iron is that the idea that you have to baby it is a hold over from the days when soap had lye in it. Today’s dish detergent is fine and won’t damage your seasoning, neither will basic green nylon scrubbing sponges. I was almost despondent about my carefully seasoned pans not delivering until I really went to town on them and removed the dull layer of burned on material and got them back to a shine. Now the eggs slide off.

Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#266

Post by makeitdouble »

tylerFowler wrote: post #36

The usual line that I've heard on nonstick pans is that the leaking process happens at very high temperatures. In general one shouldn't use very high heat on a non-stick pan & certainly not an _empty_ non-stick pan. David Chang's podcast has an interesting episode on this specific topic, though he brings on a domain expert who definitely has a lot of bias (but expertise nonetheless). https://open.spotify.com/episode/…

With two major caveat that make it way less practical:

- those tests aren’t against ageing pans. To be the safest, you’d need to buy pans on a short cycle

- chipping is still dangerous (physical degradation, including regular wear)

Basically, there is a specific case (new, perfectly intact, low-regular temperatures only) where it’s probably safe, and everything else is potentially harmful.

Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#267

Post by pgt »

novaRom wrote: post #204
jadams5 wrote: post #143

For folks having issues with food sticking to cast iron or carbon steel, try learning to cook on stainless. It's much more prone to sticking, but if you can get the technique down well enough to not have eggs stick on stainless then switch to cast it's a walk in the park.

Tomatoes+Onions+Eggs, anything watery or sour = stainless with some drops of olive oil Meat, Potatoes = cast iron with sunflower oil anything else (crepes, pan cakes) = carbon steel with either canola or sunflower oil To prevent eggs to stick putting some onion rings or slices of ginger helps. The most difficult is to get good non-oily crepes.

Sunflower oil & canola oil (rapeseed oil) = PUFAs. Avoid seed oils!

Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#268

Post by 14 »

Robotbeat wrote: post #183
14 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing you need to be careful with using a cast iron pan is to not go too high heat. Since they can withstand a higher heat from other pans there is a risk when doing so as it creates a carcinogenic compound. There's some concern that because cast-iron pans can sustain high heat, they may produce chemicals known as heterocyclic amines (HCAs) and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), which are linked to an incre…

Indeed. Any kind of burning or charring of food is causing really complex chemistry, and with organic molecules will likely produce aromatics, etc. (benzene is the prototypical aromatic and is present in cooking oil fumes: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4029104/ ). I think about this a lot when we’re cautioned about the presence of extremely minuscule amounts of industrial chemicals, some of the same th…

What I find odd is usually our bodies are extremely good at warning us of a lot of dangers. Things that are bitter don’t eat. Things that smell very fowl maybe don’t want to eat. But barbecued food smell and taste so good with a slight char on the outside. Our senses let us down if they truly are bad for you.

Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#269

Post by megous »

jimmaswell wrote: post #70
nerdawson wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a fair point. I don't cook anything that causes me a problem using stainless steel but I accept there may be cases where non-stick is essential. My earlier point could be expanded to: Make stainless steel your primary cookware and only fall back to a non-stick option when absolutely necessary. In doing so, you're risking far less exposure than someone who uses that stuff for everything they cook.

Nonstick is never absolutely necessary. It's a minor convenience over learning to control heat or washing a pan if you don't.

IR thermometer is a good thing to have and it takes a lot of guessing out from heating the pan correctly and heat control. I haven't burned oil in ages. Works best with the cast iron pans, due to the black non-reflective finish.

Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#270

Post by MorrisMinor »

CrHn3 wrote: post #227
Robotbeat wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually wonder if the charred food contains just as toxic of chemicals? Heating edible oils above 200C and/or for prolonged periods produces transfats, for instance, and there is extremely complex chemistry going on in the burnt portion of foods (or really any substance containing a kind of organic molecule).

It is my understanding that heating edible oils will not produce trans fats unless there is a catalyst to donate hydrogen, a vacuum and a prolonged period of time longer than average cooking times. It is unlikely that a person cooking at home will create trans fats. Different oils have different smoke points, and heating an oil beyond that smoke point can polymerize the oil and produce free radicals. Charring foods c…

Liquid oils contain cis double bonds that will isomerize to trans when heated (no H required). Short cooking times will minimise this, or you can use a saturated fat like butter.
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