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Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods

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Re: Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods

#261

Post by SECProto »

grumpyprole wrote: post #178
SECProto wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favourite part about wires is that there's never interference or poor connectivity. Aux headphones, ethernet cables, wired mouse and keyboard - all so much more painless.

Not always true. The USB-C port is already loose on my Android phone after only 1 year of use. I cannot use it with a DAC on the go for music, as the slightest wobble will cause a disconnect. I never had this issue with headphone jacks, but even so, wireless has some advantages.

Ah that's fair - I am not a fan of how manufacturers have removed aux ports on phones for exactly this reason. A phone without an aux port is a dealbreaker for me (currently looking for a phone to replace my 4 year old galaxy a8, it's tough to find one as good!)

Re: Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods

#262

Post by p_l »

MereInterest wrote: post #249
p_l wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of 2.4GHz band is to be a "dump" band due to interference from microwave ovens, and happens to be a global band because of microwave ovens on airliners.

I'd love to hear the history of it, because my understanding was that the 2.4 GHz band would be useless for long-distance communication even without microwave ovens, due to atmospheric attenuation. That is, 2.4 GHz is useful for microwave ovens and useless for long-distance radio for the same reason, because they are easily absorbed by water.

Essentially when microwaves were introduced the 2.4GHz spectrum wasn't allocated from my understanding, and USA proposed the current allocation as global one so that nobody would try to depend on it and then suddenly face interference from airliner's microwave oven (for example while on the ground) - this move preempted various legal issues of including the devices in airplane equipment and probably made for easier spread of microwave ovens in general as they got cheaper (because less certification etc.)

Re: Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods

#263

Post by danachow »

rkangel wrote: post #228
danachow wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you assume that will accomplish? It’s your own Part 15 devices interfering with each other because of some shitty spec (Bluetooth) - I don’t think there’s any FCC rule breaking involved here. I’m all for using the federal agency complaint process but this is dumb.

You're right it's possible they haven't done anything but it's not for certain. Options that are what's wrong: They are breaking the rules of the ISM band (the free 2.4GHz band). Transmitting too strongly or with too much leakage. This is the easiest way to cause the problems listed and would get them in the most trouble (because it's trouble with the FCC), but is unlikely. In spec Bluetooth implementation and in spe…

> This is the easiest way to cause the problems listed and would get them in the most trouble.

The devices both run in the 2.4 GHz band so, no, leakage outside the band or even excess power is not the “easiest way” this is causing problems - it’s probably much more mundane.

Re: Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods

#264

Post by danachow »

altairprime wrote: post #154
danachow wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you assume that will accomplish? It’s your own Part 15 devices interfering with each other because of some shitty spec (Bluetooth) - I don’t think there’s any FCC rule breaking involved here. I’m all for using the federal agency complaint process but this is dumb.

I assume it will accomplish helping the FCC realize that some people are upset about interference in the unlicensed bands between popular consumer products from a large company (Logitech) and a larger company (Apple). I'm not confident in making any accurate predictions beyond that, but it's not my job to predict what they'll do — it's my job as a consumer to report problems to them, and let them act or not as they s…

> I assume it will accomplish helping the FCC realize that some people are upset about interference in the unlicensed bands

Trust me - they are very well aware of this - and Part 15 is already written with this in mind. No one is surprised that all the junk in the ISM band interferes - as I said elsewhere I think many of us are constantly amazed it works as well as it does.

This is also not enforceable interference - it does not meet the definition of “harmful interference”

> Report the issue as perceived, and give them a chance to surprise you with a useful outcome from that.

My question still remains - what do you think or hope this will accomplish?

Are you hoping they will carve out a slice of new spectrum for AirPods and give it to Apple for free?

> Refusing to report a problem just because (made up example) I think they don't care about Bluetooth

It’s not that they don’t care - it’s that this is getting really outside the scope of their regulations.

You do you, but the point of the federal complaint process is, well …“By filing a consumer complaint and telling your story, you contribute to federal enforcement and consumer protection efforts”

Consumer protection meaning scams and fraud over telecommunication or provision of services - its not a place to vent because your shitty electronics don’t work all the time - which is not fraud even though you may feel cheated. And there are no rules broken to enforce. Having read complaints I know that yours won’t nearly be the dumbest by far but it’s still dumb.

Re: Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods

#265

Post by AceJohnny2 »

jabroni_salad wrote: post #146
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extra rant: I can't find my favorite keyboard, the MS Sculpt, in wired version, and have already had to replace it once due to, I suspect, wireless issues. I like its ergo layout, key feel, and key travel distance [1]. I just bought a new one after the last one would become unreliable on keypresses, and I can't shake the feeling that it was just wireless performance issue, not actual key detection issue. There appear…

I had that issue as well. Wish I had a good solution for you but I ended up replacing it with a logitech K860. If they offered this in a tenkeyless variety it would be perfect, but I do really like that it can do bluetooth with my tablet so I don't have to use the on-screen keyboard if I'm at my desk. and I haven't had ANY of the latency or key repeating that I had with the Sculpt.

I had to reject the K860 because of its builtin number-pad. Part of the value of the Sculpt is that it's narrow without the number pad, meaning I can fit it on my keyboard tray with room for a mouse or trackpad.

Re: Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods

#266

Post by philsnow »

torstenvl wrote: post #168
SECProto wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favourite part about wires is that there's never interference or poor connectivity. Aux headphones, ethernet cables, wired mouse and keyboard - all so much more painless.

I used to be able to tell I was about to get a GSM text message by the way my (wired) computer speakers would make a distinct quiet staccato crackle sound.

Back in ~2001 I saw cute little devices you put in your car and they would light up / blink / dance when it detected the same thing.

Re: Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods

#267

Post by least »

helmholtz wrote: post #173
least wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musicians work with wired headphones because they largely have to, not because it's intrinsically better. You don't even need to be a musician or producer to experience the drawbacks being attached to a cable can have. It's just different sets of compromises.

It is intrinsically better though. Wired sound infinitely nicer sounding, and with much lower latency. Will we ever have a day when wireless will be sufficiently low latency?

I'm not sure how you arrive at the conclusion that it is intrinsically better when both of the things you mention are tradeoffs you make, one of which isn't really true and the other which is an engineering issue.

> Wired sound infinitely nicer sounding

There are good sounding wireless headphones and terrible sounding wired headphones. The drawbacks is that with wireless headphones you can't control the sound stack and are dependent on the manufacturer to provide high quality drivers, amplification, and digital to analog conversion all built into the device.

> much lower latency

...is an engineering problem.

> Will we ever have a day when wireless will be sufficiently low latency?

A company already markets their wireless headphones directly to musicians, which is basically the threshold of low latency you need to meet; realtime monitoring [1]. Does it accomplish what it set out to do? Not sure, but seems like it's good enough for some people.

Ultimately it comes down to exactly what I said, which is that there are tradeoffs to using wired vs. wireless headphones and one is not intrinsically better than the other. You thinking that something sounds "infinitely better" doesn't make the rest of those tradeoffs not meaningful to other people.

[1] https://aiaiai.audio/headphones/tma-2-studio-wireless-plus

Re: Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods

#268

Post by jareklupinski »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #90
ubertaco wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've also found that if I used the Logitech "unifying" adapter, I _still_ had significant 2.4Ghz spectrum interference -- the Logitech adapter was causing my bluetooth headset (also in the 2.4Ghz spectrum) to have significant connectivity issues, and was also causing interference with some game controllers that operated on the 2.4Ghz spectrum in the same room. The Logitech devices connected to that dongle (an MX Mast…

I don't understand how Logitech mice are so popular given how frequently they fail due to switch problems. Everyone I know, from casual users to gamers, has had problems with logitech mouse button failures. Sometimes within months of purchase, even on their high end gaming mice that cost well north of $100, the buttons will stop working or start double-clicking.

personally it's because logitech is the only mouse that can store their custom mouse bindings and DPI onboard. every other mouse needs to have a daemon running constantly on the computer in the background for some reason, and that's a no-go for esports

Re: Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods

#269

Post by can16358p »

neurostimulant wrote: post #203
can16358p wrote: post #9

What's the problem of Logitech with Bluetooth? Unrelated to this issue, I bought a Bluetooth audio-to-analog out dongle to stream to my speakers, only to find out that I could not disconnect any paired device from it. It automatically connected to any paired device if the other device's Bluetooth is on. The moment I forcefully disconnect it forcefully connected again. I searched the web to see others' exact same issu…

All bluetooth audio dongles work like that, from all manufacturers. They'll automatically connect to the first open audio devices they see, so you shouldn't leave the dongle plugged when not used. It is very infuriating when you have a neighbor that plugs their dongle all the time and it constantly connect to your bluetooth headphone the moment you put it to pairing mode.

Just why? I get it if it connects when first powered on or the other device is first detected within range, yet why does it immediately reconnect when I disconnect?

My headphones don't have this behavior, my home Bluetooth speakers (not dongle, speakers themselves have BT) don't do it, my Bluetooth audio enabled TV doesn't do it, then why does the dongle do?

I don't see any logical explanation.

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