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A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

theatlantic.com

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Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#261

Post by glitchc »

rhacker wrote: post #251

This is how I read this. The wife may have long ago brought up some argument that was "banned". In other words - bread winner conversations. Bread winners often have this trait: I make all the money, and I can only do that by working my butt off. So you need to take care of all the other things. No questions. This is why the dishes is such a huge deal now: Since the ACTUAL conversation is banned (by the man) the only…

Yup, a lot of these dissolutions are over money and control of the finances. Breadwinners need to treat their stay-at-homes with nice dinners, shopping experiences and pocket money that feels reasonable. A lot of them get it wrong.

It’s all about dignity and respect really. Take that away from your partner and they’ll resent you, no matter how much pove there is between the two of you.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#262

Post by Arubis »

It's never about the dish, or the coffee mug, or whatever. It's all about what raw spots that dish rubs up against, probably from long before your marriage began. If you or someone you love is finding themselves disproportionally hurt or irritated by small behaviors and habits—yes, of course, find ways to shift that behavior, but please also consider counseling or therapy. There may be far greater depths of healing available than merely changing a single behavior.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#263

Post by eslaught »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #203

My relationship just ended for mostly similar reasons (it wasn't just glasses in the sink, it was a few other things I did that she considered disrespectful that seemed minor to me) I was the only one working and paying for the apartment, her hobbies, and school, but things like the above would escalate into long arguments that I would ask to defer. The problem was, I would sometimes forget details that were importan…

In case it helps you in the future, or for other readers here, let me just add: the symptoms you describe are well past the point where you probably need to see a therapist to make the relationship work.

There are things you can do to fix this. They require work on both sides, obviously, but it can be done. But unless you have way more self-awareness than I do, it's not likely that you're just going to pick them up out of thin air. The good news is, this is stuff you can learn.

If you prefer to read a book on this topic, the one I'd recommend is:

The New Rules of Marriage

by Terrence Real

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NJL7RS

But I really do strongly recommend therapy in these situations. This is the sort of thing where the therapist can help you figure out whether you both have fault or if one person is really over the line. And then you're not responsible for convincing your parter that X thing they're doing is unreasonable.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#264

Post by billmalarky »

bombcar wrote: post #69
Cerium wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Years ago I learned this lesson about marriage while on a trip in South Western China. I joined a tour group to see a mountain for a few days. My party was six and the van sat eight, so the driver got another couple to join us. They were fascinating. We learned over meals together that they were an arraigned marriage. At the time I had extremely negative views around the practice, thanks to growing up in the USA wher…

This is a very important lesson - the chance of finding a "perfect" partner is vanishingly small if considered in the normal view - but the chance of finding someone who is willing to work together is higher. And most marriages are "arranged" in some way or another, we just like to pretend that random chance plays little part and somehow we've got it down to a science.

There is no such thing as the "perfect" partner if the definition of "perfect" means "perfect compatibility."

Even if there were perfect compatibility (which would really just be extending solipsism to one's relationship), the only constant in life is change. Thus one might be "perfectly compatible" with another person in a small snapshot of time in which they enter into a marriage. Then every single day and every single change threatens that compatibility. It's a fragile house of cards to build a longterm relationship around.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#265

Post by em-bee »

notacoward wrote: post #200
em-bee wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Treat each other's needs and priorities as equal to our own" i'd go a step further and say that we each are responsible for each others needs and priorities. at least the important ones. my job is to enable and support your needs and priorities, and your job is to enable and support mine. your needs are actually more important than my own. this of course only works if we both understand, agree and respect on what ea…

Can't sign on with that. Subordinating one's own desires to the other or to the relationship like that isn't healthy, even if it's mutual, and I'm pretty sure my own marriage wouldn't have lasted this long if either of us had tried it. "Two servants" doesn't work. I think O. Henry even wrote a story about where it leads, and can lead even with the best of communication. Consciously or no, sooner or later one person w…

fair point. maybe i am seeing things a bit to idealistic. it depends on the persons character. someone who is not assertive needs more attention from their partner to their needs than others.

it also makes more sense to look at it from the other side:

if i know that my partner is subordinating her desires for my sake, then i have an extra responsibility to make sure that i take care of her needs.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#266

Post by belval »

em-bee wrote: post #256
belval wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly from the description you give, I wouldn't assign blame but it was probably the right call to break it off. 6 hours arguments that need to happen right now are a pretty big red flag...

an unresolved argument (if it's a serious one) makes it difficult for me to focus on work. (as a programmer and sysadmin, being distracted can be dangerous) if it happens in the evening i also can't sleep. so either way the day is ruined. the solution then is obviously to learn to resolve arguments in a short time. actually, resolving the argument itself is not even the issue, but knowing that we still love each othe…

I am very much the same on that part, it's hard to do great work when you are emotionally all over the place.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#267

Post by glitchc »

rajin444 wrote: post #82
jayski wrote: post #24

Im 99% sure the wife in this story used the glass as an excuse to get out. If youre happy with the life youve built together and love your partner theres no way you leave it over something like this. I dont buy the "it shows disrespect" argument. Shes going to be with somebody else in a years time. But when youre in a bad situation and the other person isn't giving you a good reason to leave sometimes you have to get…

Definitely this. The writer (and many commenters here) are missing a very important distinction. Changing yourself is good and healthy but only when you want to. Changing for somebody else is toxic and will not work. Marriage is a partnership, not a series of trade offs (in practice it will look like this, but it cannot be seen as this). Both sides should be grateful for the changes they make for one another as well…

Bad behaviour always needs a rethink. Change from bad to good behaviour is always painful and unwanted. By your logic no one should change their bad behaviour because they don’t want to change.

The id and the superego have to be in balance.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#268

Post by Arubis »

dkersten wrote: post #76

I once saw the marriage advice that everybody, no matter how great their relationship is, should meet with a marriage/relationship counsellor on a regular basis, because, that way, any issues the two of you may have gets dealt with while its still a small thing and is never given a chance to turn into a big deal. Doing it with a counsellor means you have a safe space with someone who knows how to deal with issue duri…

If you're resourced enough to have access, this is great advice. It's like doing regular maintenance: you might be able to do it yourself, but bringing in a professional is a good idea.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#269

Post by Stratoscope »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #75
bombcar wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very important lesson - the chance of finding a "perfect" partner is vanishingly small if considered in the normal view - but the chance of finding someone who is willing to work together is higher. And most marriages are "arranged" in some way or another, we just like to pretend that random chance plays little part and somehow we've got it down to a science.

I can't recommend this book enough on the topic. TLDR Women are more picky then Men in the courtship marketplace, and finding a partner with matching values is most important to growing and staying together. People expect a fairy tale, when they're signing up for a job (relationships require work and effort). A quote from the author 10 years post publishing: “I think the book is really, ironically, about having highe…

> @300bps (HN throttling, can't reply directly)

Just a tip, the throttling only applies to the comment thread, and I believe it is only a five-minute timeout.

You can always reply to a comment directly without waiting for the timeout, by clicking on the timestamp next to the username. That takes you to the individual comment page which will have a reply box.

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