Train burglaries in LA • Hacker News Board

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#261

Post by donkeybeer » Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 10:06 AM UTC

DocTomoe wrote: post #212

savolai wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen how tricky participating in society with a cheap android phone can get. Your memory runs out all the time when you try to have apps critical for everyday life, and your privacy is sold to highest bidder. Everything takes more time and is less reliable. Until we as a society can honestly look at what reasonable amount of well being in information societies looks like, it's tricky to tell those with less what…

I've been using cheap (~150 Euros) chinese Android phones for years now. I have not experienced memory running out (my current one has some 256 GB, I think), and privacy selling is a problem caused by apps, not by the hardware - you'd be surprised the amount of info your average iOS app sells. This Android vs. iOS thing is not about technical capabilities, it's about elitism - and elitism always breeds jealousy, and…

The poor most probably aren't using 150 euro phones, and he probably meant RAM more so than storage.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#262

Post by discreteevent » Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 10:07 AM UTC

barrenko wrote: post #182

buran77 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Indeed. There's so much focus on short-term solutions for crime – even outside of the US. There's an old nugget that if anyone could time-travel they'd go back in time and kill Hitler. Nobody would go a few more years back to educate him. People are not educated to look at the big picture but to react in the moment. Stop the theft as it's happening. Shoot. This goes best with societies where taking a life is consid…

It's not just education, it's shitty parenting. You'd recursively have to educate Hitler's parents, and to do that you have to educate their parents etc. ad nauseum. Pretty soon you'd blow your stack. Naive interventionism is worse than just whacking Hitler.

I think the point is to whack hitler now but also invest in education now so that you have less hitlers to whack in a few generations time.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#263

Post by ramoz » Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 10:07 AM UTC

furyg3 wrote: post #192

gonehome wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably SF’s lack of police response enables continued drug abuse and homelessness. See: https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2021/rescuing-jessica-s... This person has no interest in treatment. They want to do drugs and take advantage of what’s provided to keep doing that. You can’t fix that with hotels. You either need to require treatment or imprison (paired with arresting dealers). On the more progressive end, m…

Arresting dealers / busting drug rings is one of the few policing activities that directly leads to MORE crime. What happens when you bust a drug ring and arrest some big players? You immediately create a power vacuum, which leads to a turf war where other players (in the gang or between gangs) start jockeying for power, spreading their mayhem across the area. The only solution here is legalization, treatment, and ge…

So legalize and the gang bangers go away? Nice!

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#264

Post by bildung » Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 10:09 AM UTC

mngnt wrote: post #145

dusted wrote: post #102

My observation from the comment sections to this post-apocalyptic video is the following: People focusing on how to prevent the theft of these cars, funding police, armed guards on trans, better security. I think this is an interesting perspective, it's very "American", it's like it has been accepted by these commenters that rampant thievery is a perfectly natural part of life and so, must be worked around rather tha…

The cause is the same as it always has been: it is easier for some people to get to the desired standard of living by stealing/other crime than by working. Why crime us going up? Because of higher desired standard (every body needs an iPhone, brand name shoes and hats), more difficulty with earning a wage (largely, difficulty getting a job at all) and decreased difficulty in crime (defunding police, more aesily avail…

It's pretty well-established empirically, over long periods and multiple countries, that this is mostly about income inequality. Not about overall wealth, not about new gadgets. Want to reduce theft and (juvenile) violent crime? Than reduce income inequality.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#265

Post by bildung » Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 10:10 AM UTC

user-the-name wrote: post #232

KSteffensen wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is crime rate proportional to inequality or poverty?

Inequality implies poverty, so this question is pointless.

No, it's actually only the inequality, not poverty, that correlates with high crime rates.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#266

Post by roenxi » Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 10:10 AM UTC

mngnt wrote: post #145

dusted wrote: post #102

My observation from the comment sections to this post-apocalyptic video is the following: People focusing on how to prevent the theft of these cars, funding police, armed guards on trans, better security. I think this is an interesting perspective, it's very "American", it's like it has been accepted by these commenters that rampant thievery is a perfectly natural part of life and so, must be worked around rather tha…

The cause is the same as it always has been: it is easier for some people to get to the desired standard of living by stealing/other crime than by working. Why crime us going up? Because of higher desired standard (every body needs an iPhone, brand name shoes and hats), more difficulty with earning a wage (largely, difficulty getting a job at all) and decreased difficulty in crime (defunding police, more aesily avail…

That is basically a longform way of saying "people will steal if their personal economics makes stealing rational". While extremely true it doesn't give a toehold into the problem to decide what to do next.

The question here is really what specific policies and cultural forces are shaping the economic realities that these people are living in. If nothing else, we should ask why someone isn't having great success hiring a few thick-knuckled train robbers away from their life of crime and running a very profitable security business.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#267

Post by scollet » Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 10:11 AM UTC

bluescrn wrote: post #156

sjtindell wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A horrible way to prevent theft. Statistically a great way to create career criminals, break up families, and all the side effects that comes with (like more criminals).

But this attitude leads to the current situation, where the criminals face minimal risk, the deterrent factor of harsh punishments isn't there.

Are they stealing because they're criminals or are they criminals because they're stealing?

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#268

Post by weallknowtheobv » Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 10:11 AM UTC

Ansil849 wrote: post #98

esyir wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Screw it. This notion that we should only punish violent crime, and all other crime should be ignored needs to go. Look at this chain of logic presented above. >> Additionally, mail theft laws which include prison as a consequence should be extended to package thefts if they don't already cover them. >But it is a nonviolent crime. It seems like finding some way to prevent the thefts is better. The implied conclusion…

> unilaterally and directly harm other people. Which is precisely what "punishment" does. Try being less vindictive and more understanding about the root circumstances that lead someone to perform an act of desperation.

No post body was provided.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#269

Post by ramoz » Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 10:11 AM UTC

kogepathic wrote: post #228

gonehome wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imo the comment you’re replying to is a kind of progressive left-wing university faculty lounge flavor of upper middle class politics and is not representative of the vast majority of Americans (but is overrepresented online). I’d suspect most Americans (across the political spectrum) would see these train robberies and think “these people should go to jail”, rather than moralizing about why it’s not their fault.

> I’d suspect most Americans (across the political spectrum) would see these train robberies and think “these people should go to jail”, rather than moralizing about why it’s not their fault. Jail isn't some magical free solution to your crime problems. Would Americans still be so eager to imprison someone if they knew that the cost to incarcerate someone is ~$36k/yr? [1] The government defines poverty as $12k/yr for…

Yes, literally still imprison the people committing these crimes.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#270

Post by unityByFreedom » Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 10:12 AM UTC

perihelions wrote: post #89

unityByFreedom wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine this will get sorted since Buffett both invests in Union Pacific and provides insurance. He famously doesn't get involved in the companies in which he invests, but I imagine his people could shoot over a question like, "why is this happening?"

Society should be strong enough *not* to have to rely on random idiot billionaires to sponsor basic social services like law enforcement.

The railroad itself is incentivized to secure its own goods. We aren't "reliant" on them to do that.

If Buffett sells his stake in UP, someone else buys it and the company continues on. They got big because they figured out how to build a profitable business. Part of that is security. None of that makes us dependent on them. We have a mutual dependence through trade. Businesses provide something we want, and we give them something they want.