Live data from Hacker News

Train burglaries in LA

twitter.com

151–160 of 652 posts

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#151
post #145
post #102

My observation from the comment sections to this post-apocalyptic video is the following: People focusing on how to prevent the theft of these cars, funding police, armed guards on trans, better security. I think this is an interesting perspective, it's very "American", it's like it has been accepted by these commenters that rampant thievery is a perfectly natural part of life and so, must be worked around rather tha…

The cause is the same as it always has been: it is easier for some people to get to the desired standard of living by stealing/other crime than by working. Why crime us going up? Because of higher desired standard (every body needs an iPhone, brand name shoes and hats), more difficulty with earning a wage (largely, difficulty getting a job at all) and decreased difficulty in crime (defunding police, more aesily avail…

Crime rates go up when inequality goes up.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like it could be quite error prone. If it's electronic, what about power failures? If mechanical, sounds like lots of intricate machined parts which will wear down over time.

Time locks have been around for more than 100 years, I'm pretty confident that if something like this was desired by the powers that be, it would have been implemented. What I'm assuming is stopping it aren't the engineering challenges, but the fact that currently it's cheaper to let the thefts happen than it is to mitigate them.

I wonder what the cost of engineering secure containers would be vs. addressing the societal problems in the USA that lead to situations like this would be.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and move on to a better life That's exactly what is being attempted via the theft.

Obviously theft is not a long-term solution. Being a lowlife is no way to live. There are people working the skin off their bones on two jobs just to barely live. And some entitled shmuck wants the easy way out?

Not to meander too much, but I think this is a genuinely interesting question. Is theft the 'easy way out'? I'm not so sure. It's a job like any other, requiring skill to be successful, and comes with a slew of stressors that are non-issues in legal jobs, like the risk of apprehension for starters. The higher risk may also at times yield higher reward, but I wouldn't say necessarily 'easier'. I think showing up for a generic 9-to-5 is significantly easier than robbing trains successfully.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fixing this is a two part issue. One, we cannot get rid of physical security, as everyone should have the right to protect themselves and their property. Two, the way to prevent crime from happening is to make people feel in the heart and soul that crime is morally wrong and destructive for the community around them. This is not instinctual human behavior. For those who learn this and live this, great. For those who…

You want to know why I don't steal? It's because I don't have to. I have sufficient security of income and opportunity that it's not necessary. I'm not bragging, though, what I'm getting at is that you're missing a huge part of why people steal - maybe even the largest part: because they feel they have to survive, or because it's okay because society is stacked against them. This is what above was talking about when…

What you're saying is, if the crooks have their basic necessities fulfilled, they would become politicians and CEO's instead of thieves?

Only half joking. You're right that you can fix 90% of crimes your way. But there is a group of people that, for some reason, just want to see the world burn or feel the power to make others miserable. We need to deal with them somehow.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#155
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Screw it. This notion that we should only punish violent crime, and all other crime should be ignored needs to go. Look at this chain of logic presented above. >> Additionally, mail theft laws which include prison as a consequence should be extended to package thefts if they don't already cover them. >But it is a nonviolent crime. It seems like finding some way to prevent the thefts is better. The implied conclusion…

> unilaterally and directly harm other people. Which is precisely what "punishment" does. Try being less vindictive and more understanding about the root circumstances that lead someone to perform an act of desperation.

How is stealing electronics and covid tests an act of desperation? They are not stealing food and hygiene products, right?

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think putting the criminals in prisons for a long time, and the threat of the criminals being caught, is already a good way to prevent thefts.

A horrible way to prevent theft. Statistically a great way to create career criminals, break up families, and all the side effects that comes with (like more criminals).

But this attitude leads to the current situation, where the criminals face minimal risk, the deterrent factor of harsh punishments isn't there.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#157
post #110
post #102

My observation from the comment sections to this post-apocalyptic video is the following: People focusing on how to prevent the theft of these cars, funding police, armed guards on trans, better security. I think this is an interesting perspective, it's very "American", it's like it has been accepted by these commenters that rampant thievery is a perfectly natural part of life and so, must be worked around rather tha…

Indeed. There's so much focus on short-term solutions for crime – even outside of the US. Taking a leaf from Deming, we have a system, a process, a society that creates a certain, relatively stable, number of criminals per year. Trying to address specific criminal acts or specific criminals is just meddling that can backlash as easily as it can help. When you have a stable source of trouble, it makes no sense to try…

> Indeed. There's so much focus on short-term solutions for crime – even outside of the US.

There's an old nugget that if anyone could time-travel they'd go back in time and kill Hitler. Nobody would go a few more years back to educate him.

People are not educated to look at the big picture but to react in the moment. Stop the theft as it's happening. Shoot. This goes best with societies where taking a life is considered appropriate response to someone trying to steal your fishing lure, societies where your individual rights trump absolutely anything else (imagine explicitly voting to pay more taxes yourself because that will benefit the poorer part of the population).

Reacting in the moment requires almost no thought out process. It's mostly autonomous, a reflex. Thinking of the bigger picture, identifying a root cause, identifying the impact of each of your options, these all take a strong enough education to override that reflex.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#158
post #102

My observation from the comment sections to this post-apocalyptic video is the following: People focusing on how to prevent the theft of these cars, funding police, armed guards on trans, better security. I think this is an interesting perspective, it's very "American", it's like it has been accepted by these commenters that rampant thievery is a perfectly natural part of life and so, must be worked around rather tha…

While I understand your argument, it ignores the fact that, at scale, there is a non-insignificant chunk of society that is willing to break and bend the rules for personal gain, causing others loss, simply because that's the most direct path for them to obtain what they want. This is, at least in my opinion, exacerbated by the size and the diversity of the US population, and its variety of creeds, affluence levels, ethnic backgrounds, and others. The US is not Iceland, it's not Japan, it's not Finland.

If you increase the base floor of affluence in the whole of society, yes, people stricken by poverty will no longer have to conduct this kind of activity out of desperation, but many, driven by other impulses, will simply move up to a higher class level of antisocial white collar behavior, from scamming investors to conmanship et al. still eventually necessitating the intervention of law enforcement and jail time.

If you take a look at your average prison population, people incarcerated due to poverty-induced despair are only part of the picture. There are plenty of folks in there who, for one reason or another, spanning from genetics to growing up in extremely abusive environments, are not wired to succeed in society, and are in some form a menace to it, and need to be contained in a way that allows non-sociopaths to conduct normal living.

I can't tell you the exact desperation-to-sociopathy ratio of criminal activity, I'm not sure those numbers exist, but my hunch, based on whatever information I've gotten my hands on over the years, is that the sociopath percentage behind this sort of activity is non-trivial and cannot be simply glossed over in the interest of standing up for folks of lesser means.

Before we inject our own biases into this conversation, I would love to see the data, the stats, and understand why the culprits are doing what they're doing. Otherwise we're simply painting our existing moral and political positions onto this canvas with no way of refuting any of the stances. The trite and tedious unfalsifiable personal-responsibility-vs-oppressed-victim-of-circumstances debate that never gets anywhere.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#159
post #138
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like putting locks and security on your home, "Now they won't break into MY home, because the guy next door has less security, so they'll go at him instead". This is not uniquely American. In the EU so many people by SUVs (despite the impracticality in smaller European streets) “because it’ll make sure I have the benefit in a car crash”. It is technically correct but such an extremely cold statement.

You'll have to be more specific than "EU" because I've never seen an American-style SUV in Western Europe. Closest I can get is a crossover SUV like a Mercedes GLA.

> I've never seen an American-style SUV in Western Europe

I was actually thinking about these SUVs this morning, as their were two Cadillac Escalades [0] parked on my block in central Stockholm as I walked my kid to school. The town is *full* of these types of vehicles (there are even full-size Hummers driving around).

The "EU" can't be characterized in this uniform way - the different countries are totally unlike each other in so many respects. Because Sweden is part of Scandinavia, people often think there's a cycling culture here for instance - but that's also totally untrue. The same is true of our gun-crime - with criminal gangs frequently shooting each other on the streets: such a thing was virtually unknown to me throughout the time I lived in central London.

The true picture is way more nuanced than the Europe vs USA binary that people like to imagine.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Escalade

Post reply on HN