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Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

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Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#261

Post by pkulak »

tw04 wrote: post #171
mchusma wrote: post #139

The whole booster conversation seems like a political game. If you have a vaccine, then your risk of death is far below that of the flu (statistically). If you don't have a vaccine by now, you want covid instead and this booster conversation is irrelevant. Kids are banned from taking anything. So I expect booster or no booster, frankly it just won't matter much at the population scale. I also don't understand the mas…

>Is it to protect kids? If so, then all that effort is better directed at the FDA who has banned them from getting the vaccine. I think this is the area where people should have the most anger and Biden should frankly push legislation to replace or reform the FDA. Their behavior has been atrocious. What specifically has been atrocious? The FDA has ALWAYS been extremely cautious in approving vaccinations for children.…

The FDA initially wanted 2 months of data for under 12, just like adults. Then they changed their minds and wanted 6 months instead. I'm sure they had a reason, but in 70 years of vaccines, we've never had a side effect after 2 months. If they changed their minds once, they can damn well do it again and get this thing out there.

Then there's the objections (and resignations) to the booster. The specific reasons being:

> current vaccine supplies could save more lives if used in previously unvaccinated populations than if used as boosters in vaccinated populations

We all know this, but it's not the FDA's job to factor in global supply and distribution. Are boosters safe and effective? That's the FDA's job. Will denying boosters in the US increase first shots in other countries? That sure seems debatable to me. But regardless, it's not the concern of the FDA. I don't know what the hell they have been doing, but they've been going far beyond their scope lately.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#262

Post by runarberg »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #147
mchusma wrote: post #139

The whole booster conversation seems like a political game. If you have a vaccine, then your risk of death is far below that of the flu (statistically). If you don't have a vaccine by now, you want covid instead and this booster conversation is irrelevant. Kids are banned from taking anything. So I expect booster or no booster, frankly it just won't matter much at the population scale. I also don't understand the mas…

> If you don't have a vaccine by now, you want covid instead and this booster conversation is irrelevant Friend’s mother visiting from Jamaica. People in her country are dying while they wait for first shots. The voluntarily unvaccinated in America are idiots. The author’s point is there are billions of unvoluntarily unvaccinated around the world to whom these doses could go.

While I agree that the rational course for anybody who is able to get vaccinated is to get vaccinated, people may still have reasons—however irrational—that are not idiotic.

Lets say you are a person who has had substandard health care all your life. And justly see the medical system as something not catered for people like you. You know the history of inhumane medical experiments being conducted on your ancestors as early as a generation ago. You also know that the medical profession has had severely wrong and racist theories about health care for your ethnicity.

Now the medical profession asks you to trust them and accept the vaccine.

Now I am not that person, and where I’m from the health care system has proven it self to be extremely valuable for me personally and those who I love (and coincidentally has one of the highest vaccination rate in the world). But if I put my self in other’s shoes I can easily understand how vaccine hesitancy is only natural.

Now what to do about it: Respect peoples concerns, e.g. don’t call them idiots for these concerns. Try to understand and educate. If people still don’t want the vaccine, don’t panic. Keep giving vaccines out for free to those who want it (and please include poorer countries). Perhaps if enough people are vaccinated worldwide it will slow the spread and mutation rate of the virus enough that we won’t have more of the mass waves of new variants and the vaccination status of each individual becomes irrelevant.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#263

Post by Akronymus »

bedhead wrote: post #190
delecti wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Considering the head start they had on most of the world and the vaccine supplies this can't be described as anything other than a complete and utter failure on all levels. That's probably why the GP comment described it as "their"(our) maximum vaccination percentage. The vaccine and virus have both been politicized too much, and too many people are obstinately refusing it as a result.

It feels like more and more people whom I would consider very partisan (either side) simply act out of spite nowadays. Whatever the other side wants, well, we're just going to unconditionally fight it. You saw this accelerate after Trump won with "Resist", an ethos that literally means to defy regardless of circumstances. And now you see the right's version of "Resist" by avoiding vaccinations. Why? Because screw the…

From what I remember, it started with saying you'd be stupid to take "the trump vaccine". (In less pleasant language)

To me, it seems to have been politicized by the left first. This in combination with the RAPID flip of the coverage/opinion from the left after Biden took the presidency seems like a pretty good explanation for a good part of the rights defiance.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#264

Post by ufo »

odessacubbage wrote: post #238
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you don't have a vaccine by now, you want covid instead and this booster conversation is irrelevant Friend’s mother visiting from Jamaica. People in her country are dying while they wait for first shots. The voluntarily unvaccinated in America are idiots. The author’s point is there are billions of unvoluntarily unvaccinated around the world to whom these doses could go.

please give '''my''' shot to a high risk person in jamaica or iran or brazil. i don't need it, they do.

Thankfully, the most high risk people in Brazil have gotten two shots by now; we're moving towards giving a first shot to every adult, and starting second shots for everyone. The vaccination campaign was botched by negligence and corruption from the Bolsonaro government, but by now the doses are finally arriving.

We're also having the same discussions about third dose... Currently, the order is to give a third dose for the elderly (70+) and immunocompromised.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#265

Post by adolph »

setgree wrote: post #258

I just got an unsanctioned booster in NY (a 2nd J&J). I expect a 2nd J&J, though classified as a booster, to provide an immunogenic response comparable to a second dose of Moderna or Pfizer; the fact that J&J marketed itself as a 1-dose rather than 2-dose solution seems to have been motivated by a desire to get to market faster [0] rather than something intrinsic about the vaccine, and we already know that one dose o…

> I basically decided to go it alone . . . apply scientific reasoning to the issue

Please be sure to publish the results of your study of one.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#266

Post by kimmeld »

ds206 wrote: post #225
drewg123 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I mentioned on another thread, I just spent a few days in the hospital with an appendicitis. The hospital was swamped with COVID patients. It took 16 hours for me to be admitted to the hospital, which I was told was quite long for this hospital. My hospital roommate waited nearly 30 hours. The non-covid floor that I was on was severely understaffed, with nurses caring for 2.5x as many patients as normal. The nursi…

So your assumption is that all the covid patients were unvaccinated?

Not an assumption. Just the data showing this to be true almost universally across the US. Statistically, breakthrough cases also skew older. Locally where I live >95% of patients in the hospital with COVID are unvaccinated.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#267

Post by arcbyte »

paulcole wrote: post #253
nafix wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's highly ignorant to call unvaccinated Americans idiots. Over 100 million Americans have already caught and recovered from Covid. I imagine many in that group don't see any value in getting the vaccine (rightfully so).

There is some value in fitting in with society and showing those who are skeptical that there's nothing to be afraid of with a vaccine. And with more mandates going into place it's easier to just get vaccinated.

I've said from the beginning of this year that I'll get vaccinated as soon as the government gets out of it. At this point, the mandates are specifically why I refuse to get vaccinated. I caught covid in August so I'm immune for the next year at least. So there's no reason for me to get vaccinated and every reason not to.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#268

Post by spywaregorilla »

bwship wrote: post #255
ghaff wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you think a vaccine works?

Most vaccines contain the actual virus. This vaccine does not.

Some of them are traditional inactivated virus vaccines. If that's your only point of concern, you should simply be advocating for J&J.

All of them still work by teaching your own immune system.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#269

Post by mr_overalls »

nafix wrote: post #206
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you don't have a vaccine by now, you want covid instead and this booster conversation is irrelevant Friend’s mother visiting from Jamaica. People in her country are dying while they wait for first shots. The voluntarily unvaccinated in America are idiots. The author’s point is there are billions of unvoluntarily unvaccinated around the world to whom these doses could go.

It's highly ignorant to call unvaccinated Americans idiots. Over 100 million Americans have already caught and recovered from Covid. I imagine many in that group don't see any value in getting the vaccine (rightfully so).

Choosing to risk catching a disease with a 1-2% case fatality rate, while refusing an overwhelmingly safe and effective vaccine is the definition of idiocy.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#270

Post by pbaka »

[deleted] wrote: post #227
mchusma wrote: post #139

The whole booster conversation seems like a political game. If you have a vaccine, then your risk of death is far below that of the flu (statistically). If you don't have a vaccine by now, you want covid instead and this booster conversation is irrelevant. Kids are banned from taking anything. So I expect booster or no booster, frankly it just won't matter much at the population scale. I also don't understand the mas…

[deleted]

> Kids are dying

No.

Check the CDC numbers by searching "burden of pneumonia influenza".

Minors 0-14 (not just kids) died twice less of covid than kids 0-5 are dying every year of classical pneumonias alone (influenza, strepto, etc). If you look through the numbers in more detail, all the minors 0-15 which died had severe comorbidities to begin with.

To add to that, no kids died of pneumonias since Covid began, strangely enough (it seems keeping kids at home did that). Classical pneumonias on the other hand left 60'000 kids 0-5 each year with various lifelong lung problems, in the US alone.

>FDA should provide an EUA [...] monoclonal antibodies

Already done, there's just not enough manufacturing capacity, only approx. 1 factory per northern continent makes it (1 USA, 1 Switzerland).

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