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Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

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Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#161

Post by zarzavat »

fsh wrote: post #80
zarzavat wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do they propose to get Pfizer shots that have to be stored at -70 C, to areas in developing countries that need first doses? As far as I can see, the vaccine that is actually suitable for developing countries is the AstraZeneca one, and this isn't often used in the west because of the blood clot issues.

They will use insulated containers with dry ice, same as everywhere else. This might not work in the middle of the jungle, but most developing contries actually have roads and trucks.

Roads and trucks are not a problem but most third world countries also have an abundance of corruption and general apathy towards rules, good luck running a cold chain to all corners of such a country.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#162

Post by SamBam »

Robotbeat wrote: post #131
occz wrote: post #5

I think this is the correct analysis - the focus should be to provide vaccines to the rest of the worlds nations that have not yet gotten widespread access to vaccines. This is likely to cause the greatest benefit in the form of fewer global deaths, and reduced global spread of the disease.

But we do not have a limited number of vaccines. At this point there has been plenty of time supply chains to produce the necessary precursors so we are limited entirely by demand. If we are distributing extra vaccines to other countries it is because we don’t want to not because we can’t or because we’re fighting over a single scarce resource. There is no evidence that we have to choose between boosters or sending v…

Source? Are you suggesting that Moderna and Pfizer have factories-worth of unused capacity sitting around idle?

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#164

Post by delecti »

Thlom wrote: post #157
epmaybe wrote: post #95

I think this reporting is dancing around the issue, that the vaccine supply is most concentrated in countries that have essentially reached their maximum vaccination percentage. By not providing access to those developing or smaller countries, larger countries are shooting themselves in the proverbial global foot. I don’t think countries like the US and Canada aren’t trying to do that, I just think these experts woul…

The US has not met their maximum vaccination percentage. According to the graph I get in Google the US is stuck on around 50% fully vaccinated. Considering the head start they had on most of the world and the vaccine supplies this can't be described as anything other than a complete and utter failure on all levels.

> Considering the head start they had on most of the world and the vaccine supplies this can't be described as anything other than a complete and utter failure on all levels.

That's probably why the GP comment described it as "their"(our) maximum vaccination percentage. The vaccine and virus have both been politicized too much, and too many people are obstinately refusing it as a result.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#165

Post by Someone1234 »

nullc wrote: post #116
sradman wrote: post #77

There is not strong evidence supporting a 3rd booster dose in immunocompetent people. We have partly seen a misinterpretation of the Israeli data [1] and specifically the single low effectiveness value that appears to be the result of Simpson's Paradox [2]. Dr. Fauci reported this single value decline from the high nineties to the high seventies on Andy Slavitt's podcast [3]. Pfizer's CEO has promoted this same data,…

> a strong indicator that the U.S. will follow the same path. British Columbia's Dr. Bonnie Henry indicated yesterday [4] that ...an even stronger indicator is that the Biden administration seems to have asked two multi-decade long FDA vaccine approval experts to resign following them authoring this report saying that the evidence didn't support the widespread use of boosters as a public health measure.

> ...an even stronger indicator is that the Biden administration seems to have asked two multi-decade long FDA vaccine approval experts to resign following them authoring this report saying that the evidence didn't support the widespread use of boosters as a public health measure.

What you stated did not occur.

What did happen was that the FDA and CDC got into a procedural slap-fight, and because the CDC gave advice first and the White House signaled public acceptance of that advice before the FDA's panel had a chance to finish two people resigned in protest.

Let's break down why the post above is erroneous:

- "Biden administration seems to have asked" no factual basis.

- "authoring this report" they never authorized a report, that's what they were protesting.

- "report saying that the evidence didn't support the widespread use of boosters" since the FDA's Office of Vaccines Research and Review hasn't published a report you cannot state what is in the report.

What did occur is that the two resigning panelists published a review in The Lancet[0] where they essentially said they felt more data was needed to approve boosters and that the WH approval on the CDC's recommendation was premature (although they also said their view may not match the FDA's view as a whole so YMMV what the final FDA report says).

By the way I actually agree with the two FDA panelists on this one, and think the WH jumped the gun. But regardless of my feelings the "Biden had vaccine experts resign to push through the booster" comment above is problematic.

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/13/health/fda-coronavirus-bo...

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#166

Post by nullc »

SamBam wrote: post #159
nullc wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a strong indicator that the U.S. will follow the same path. British Columbia's Dr. Bonnie Henry indicated yesterday [4] that ...an even stronger indicator is that the Biden administration seems to have asked two multi-decade long FDA vaccine approval experts to resign following them authoring this report saying that the evidence didn't support the widespread use of boosters as a public health measure.

Link?

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/571022-to-boost-or-no...

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/08/31/biden-booster-plan-...

https://endpts.com/breaking-in-a-major-blow-to-vaccine-effor...

These are authors of this report.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#167

Post by _red »

MagnumOpus wrote: post #103
_red wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about the reverse! If you're a 8 year old male, you get the shot and die of myocarditis, but the 82 yr old overweight cancer patient gets an extra 4 months!!! YAY!

Myocarditis is about 8x more likely when getting COVID than when getting a covid vaccine, so nope, even an 8-yo should get shot out of pure self interest. (If their chance of catching COVID in the next few years is more than 1/8, which it certainly is.) https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25133462-800-myocardi...

>Post a study where totals are not separated by age / gender even though thats the claim.

Sloppy job.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/06/israel-detects-link-...

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#168

Post by [deleted] »

Thlom wrote: post #157
epmaybe wrote: post #95

I think this reporting is dancing around the issue, that the vaccine supply is most concentrated in countries that have essentially reached their maximum vaccination percentage. By not providing access to those developing or smaller countries, larger countries are shooting themselves in the proverbial global foot. I don’t think countries like the US and Canada aren’t trying to do that, I just think these experts woul…

The US has not met their maximum vaccination percentage. According to the graph I get in Google the US is stuck on around 50% fully vaccinated. Considering the head start they had on most of the world and the vaccine supplies this can't be described as anything other than a complete and utter failure on all levels.

[deleted]

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#169

Post by AzzieElbab »

542354234235 wrote: post #143
AzzieElbab wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sounds like another policy/politicized blanket statement not based on science. Have they tested levels of anti-bodies? Why is Israel with its early high vaccinations levels doing third shots?

>sounds like another policy/politicized blanket statement not based on science. Or, it is public health advice based on science, looking at what they believe would be the most effective policy globally. They aren’t saying it does or doesn’t affect the level of antibodies. They aren’t arguing that it is effective or ineffective at boosting an individual’s immunity. You seem to be fundamentally confused about what they…

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-cases.h... looking at the map above tells me people in rich western countries are dying from covid at 2-8x rates of people in the developing countries with some exceptions(Brazil, Peru, Mexico). How on earth do you make any morality based policy calls based on this data?

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#170

Post by logifail »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #149
Ambolia wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems more an acknowledgement that zero-Covid is never ever going to happen. At which point not sure if vaccinating outside of risk populations or to control hospitalizations if they are too high makes any sense.

> not sure if vaccinating outside of risk populations or to control hospitalizations if they are too high makes any sense Based on this logic, flu shots are useless. As is any treatment without guaranteed success, i.e. most medicine. (Note: prioritising vaccinating when hospitals fill up is programmatically, repeatedly peaking the healthcare system. It will do to it what repeatedly flooring the gas and hard braking w…

> flu shots are useless

(I've been struggling with the following sentence for several minutes but here goes): flu vaccines aren't widely distributed - never mind recommended - for healthy young people.

Countries appear to prioritise flu vaccine for older and/or more vulnerable people.[0]

[0] https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/flu-influenza-vac...

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