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Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

homelandsecuritynewswire.com

261–270 of 346 posts

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> create a homeland for the Jewish people This is clearly colonialism by definition. It’s the entire story because there is no justification for oppressing and colonizing others, even if the people doing it also face discrimination. It’s not an excuse and shouldn’t be part of the conversation.

Its really not though, the declaration never went into specifics on what parts will become Jewish exactly for this reason. It said a Jewish home IN Plaestine, not that all of Palestine will become Jewish. And even if it is "the definition of colonialism", what does it have to do with anything now?

A colony is the establishment of a new state on or in territory occupied by someone else. This is as textbook a case of colonialism as there is.

> And even if it is "the definition of colonialism", what does it have to do with anything now?

It’s literally the basis for every problem we’re discussing. Israel didn’t magically become not a colony, it’s enforced its apartheid state since it was created by western superpowers.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ridiculous to think the instability in the middle east is by US design, there are thousands of factions vying for power and the US has to make strategic calls day by day. Had the US made bad decisions, sure, did they know those decisions were bad at the time, probably not. If you have countries where no group (ethnic or political) has a majority, then no ruling government will be "popular".

Oh yeah? What is your explanation for Sykes-Picot?

Perhaps you can first explain why you think that is relevant? AFAIK it was an agreement that the US did not participate in, nor was its intent to destabilize.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#263
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop adding to flamewars, and don't post like this to HN in the future, regardless of which side you're on or how right you are or feel you are. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I am Israeli, and when I see blatant misinformation being brigaded in the tech community that I am a part of, about my country, I feel the need to respond. It is actually stressful to respond, but I feel the need to because I don't think the moderation on these Israeli threads is enough. And regarding the guidelines the posters who are targeting my comments have no problems being rude, patronizing, and breaking guide…

I totally get that, I understand, and I feel for your situation. But you still have to follow the rules here. Other people breaking the rules doesn't entitle you to break them. They aren't allowed to break the rules, either, and we try our hardest to be as even-handed about this as we possibly can.

There are a lot of cognitive biases at work in these situations. It always feels like the other person started it; it always feels like they did worse; it always feels like one is being "brigaded" and so on. Mostly the others are feeling the same things. Everyone has good reasons for what they're fighting for, even if those good reasons aren't expressed, and even when the arguments they're making are wrong or distorted or one-sided. Since everyone is having these similar feelings and perceptions, we all have to be super careful about moderating (in all senses of the word "moderate"), or we're guaranteed a downward spiral. That wouldn't do any of us good, regardless of our views on countries or anything else.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#265
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Our clients only use the software against terrorists and criminals" => So this means that French PM Macron is a terrorist or criminal - for somebody who built this software...

Circular arguments are so convenient. And apparently "terrorists" and "criminals" (by whose definition?) have no rights whatsoever, so whatever you do to them cannot be wrong.

terrorists really don't have any right except those afforded to prisoners. They threw those out when they decided to become terrorists.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#266
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, Israel was the first country to require a vaccine passport to go to the gym. However they simply made it so difficult to avoid vaccination that everyone did it. I'm pretty sure the Israeli government is not in the business of sterilizing Jews, so, I would say it's probably safe. Take the vaccine and get the passport and go out. It's a benefit of living in a first world country.

Sounds more like autocracy to me. Whether or not you want to have a vaccine or not is irrelevant to the fact that wanting a government to coerce people into a medical treatment is a Pandora's box I'm not sure we should really be so keen on.

Requiring a vaccine isn't a "Pandora's box", if that were true we would have been a dictatorship decades ago when other vaccines were required. People have no perspective on anything these days or general knowledge about history.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#267
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't assess these things (or anything in real world) alone, but in context of what's going on in the whole world (and what isn't). After that, its on everybody how they view their personal freedom and themselves vs the averaged good of the whole nation/civilization.

Who gets to define the greater good? We had share morals at one time with religion but that's been tore down relentless so what are those shared ideals now. The fact of the matter is that eradication is impossible so what are we actually trying to achieve here. Reduce impact on health care? Maybe we should ban smoking and alcohol then or maybe MacDonalds, where is the line?

Religion should be torn down given its history of violence and support of ignorance and general attitude towards reality and science. Not violently of course but through education and critical thinking skills because it cannot survive under the light of the actual truth about the reality of things.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#268
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am Israeli, and when I see blatant misinformation being brigaded in the tech community that I am a part of, about my country, I feel the need to respond. It is actually stressful to respond, but I feel the need to because I don't think the moderation on these Israeli threads is enough. And regarding the guidelines the posters who are targeting my comments have no problems being rude, patronizing, and breaking guide…

I totally get that, I understand, and I feel for your situation. But you still have to follow the rules here. Other people breaking the rules doesn't entitle you to break them. They aren't allowed to break the rules, either, and we try our hardest to be as even-handed about this as we possibly can. There are a lot of cognitive biases at work in these situations. It always feels like the other person started it; it al…

You are right. I am going to not even click the links with the "Israel" in them to save myself anguish. Positive vibes only

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#269
post #59

I’m not surprised that all statements from the Israeli government are filled with nothing. “We need to understand what happened” means “sorry not sorry”. This spyware is invaluable for the Israeli government because they have something that repressive Arab regimes want. These regimes can’t be bought with money, because some of them like Saudi Arabia and UAE have plenty of money. Israel needs friends and this is a gre…

> provide a way for these tinpot dictators to cement their power. That and also have backdoors into their clients' intelligence gathering. Knowing who is a good potential enemy of a state is always handy.

Some of the "incidentally collected" intelligence may be more valuable to Israeli intelligence than it is to Morocco, say, a Macron text with his opinion on the JCPA, or what he knows about a mysterious explosion at an Iranian nuclear facility. They have plausible deniability in that a client state performed the targeting, with a "private company" executing, and the are shocked to learn of this spying and "need to get to the bottom of it".

Having a hot mic on a world leader 24/7, and being able to blame someone else for it is invaluable.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it's just PR bullshit like Amesys/Qosmos execs did 10 years ago pretending their surveillance software was only used to catch pedophiles and terrorists (despite human rights orgs being on their lists)... funny btw that 4 Amesys/Qosmos execs have just been indicted this month. However, as a french person i must agree Macron is a criminal and a terrorist. A criminal because he goes (as most presidents would) aga…

As a French this is bullshit. Others have reacted before with facts. It would be great to mention that the gilets jaunes (initially a reasonable oppositiin movement, it became full of antivax and destroyers if common property) are typical of such rethoric, up until the moment they get power and realze that their claims do not hold water. Most of you, as you call your minoritary folklore mivement should get down to ea…

> initially a reasonable oppositiin movement, it became full of antivax and destroyers if common property

What's your source?

About direct action and sabotage, of course some of the movement engages in such tactics, as most protest/revolutionary movements have over the years, because that's the only way to get the message across when nobody in power wants to listen to your reasonable requests. That's the only way i know of the make the nationwide media talk of social issues and popular protests... If you have other ideas, i'm sure plenty of people are interested.

Specifically about direct action, as the name implies, the action itself is the objective. Burning trashcans and blocking streets sends a message, but attacking the institutions (eg. banks) directly responsible for our suffering, whether we agree with it or not, is a relevant political strategy that has been part of revolutionary and anti-colonial struggles since as long as history has been written, and arguably longer. Do you think the resistance movement from the 40s blowing up trains and assassinations of nazi officers was illegitimate? Or do you think the situation is possible, and the endless destruction of our planet along with deteriorating social conditions for the global populations does not warrant being angry and attacking those directly profiting from this situation?

About anti-vaxxers in the gilets jaunes movement, from what i could see it was pretty divided. Moreover, i would argue the government's lies and coverups all along the pandemic has greatly helped anti-vaxxing conspiracy theories. People don't trust the government, because the government doesn't have our interests at heart. Moreover, there is a growing distrust of the scientific community, which i personally credit to key institutions from academia and media giving scientific credit to many discredited ideas: downplaying the seriousness of climate change, advertising for urbanization as "progress" despite medical evidence pointing to inherent problems in the modern way of life, or pushing for the "green revolution" since the 50s despite solid scientific evidence that mechanized monoculture is damaging the environment and not sustainable yield-wise (we are already witnessing in Europe the first signs of desertification such as land dry, due to such techniques).

Of course, most vaccines are good. But to be honest, most people i met who you would probably label "anti-vaxxers" are not anti-vaccines, but rather skeptical of the results and side-effects, which is a good critical posture. Many people who were skeptical at first are now getting vaccinated and that's a good thing. Of course, the government trying to actually force people to get vaccinated is not helping the situation. Instead, making the vaccine widely available for free, even for those who don't have social security, would help it reach more people, and would probably help convince those who are still skeptical.

After all, the government never has our best interests at heart. In this specific case of Covid vaccines, its actions are not against our best interests (no hidden chip or autism serum in there), but for the financial interests of the pharmaceutical industry it's subsidizing through this scheme. Once again, if the government forced nobody but made the vaccine widely-available, requisitioning the pharmaceutical industry to produce it at cost, more people would be inclined to get vaccinated.

> up until the moment they get power and realze that their claims do not hold water.

So this is a divisive issue in the gilets jaunes movement since of course not everybody is an anarchist. However, a lot of people in the movement want to destroy power, not seize it. There is a strong anti-party sentiment across the gilets jaunes movement: elections are rightfully seen as the opposite of democracy (giving power away from the people), and many components of the movements advocate explicitly for decentralization of power through local assemblies, even holding "Commune of the Communes" (or assembly of assemblies) conferences to federate those smaller initiatives without centralized power.

As a conclusion, i'm not saying i feel sympathy for the entirety of the movement as we have our disagreements. For example, i don't have any sympathy for royalists and neo-fascists infiltrating the movement, and i'm glad they were kicked out of demos by the protesters themselves in some cities. However, your talking points appear to be regurgitated from government propaganda. Are you actually talking with people who identify with the gilets jaunes movement?

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