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Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio

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Re: Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio

#261
post #182

Is there any open source spatial audio thing out there? Or is everything just some proprietary magic with a brand like Dolby?

opus has an ambisonics profile: * https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8486 * https://jmvalin.ca/opus/opus-1.3/

For those who have never heard of Ambisonics, it's a surround-sound format based on taking the concept of differential stereo and extending it to three dimensions. Differential stereo is of course where instead of storing/transmitting each channel independently (as on audio cassettes or uncompressed digital audio formats like CDs) you store/transmit a sum of the two channels (L+R) and a difference (L-R) (as on vinyl records or analog FM broadcasts). Monophonic devices can just reproduce the sum channel and ignore the difference channel. Stereophonic devices can recover the two stereo channels through simple signal processing: (L+R) + (L-R) = 2L, (L+R) - (L-R) = 2R.

Ambisonics essentially asks the question of "what if we also stored a front-back and a top-bottom signal?" It turns out this is sufficient to fully represent 3D spatial audio. Additionally, unlike traditional "5.1/7.1"/etc. audio formats which assume a fixed speaker placement, digital signal processing can be used to adapt the audio to any number of speakers in any location in a space or use an HRTF to produce virtualized 3D audio for headphones.

Ambisonics had the misfortune of being invented in the 1970s before digital signal processing made the necessary audio signal processing for making practical use of it cheap and easy to implement, so inferior (but cheaper to implement) formats like Dolby Pro Logic ended up winning in both the consumer and professional spaces. From an open source perspective, though, this makes Ambisonics compelling because all of the important patents related to it should be well past their expiration by this point.

Re: Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio

#262
post #23

From the article: > J Balvin said: [...] With Lossless, everything in the music is going to sound bigger and stronger but more importantly, it will be better quality. [...] There have been tests showing we cannot hear the difference between minimally lossy audio (e.g. mp3 320kbps) and lossless. But Balvin can. And it sounds "bigger and stronger". The extra quality of lossless is nice when mixing/remixing the sound, a…

Yup. It's pointless to offer this in a locked down form.

Re: Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio

#263
post #23

From the article: > J Balvin said: [...] With Lossless, everything in the music is going to sound bigger and stronger but more importantly, it will be better quality. [...] There have been tests showing we cannot hear the difference between minimally lossy audio (e.g. mp3 320kbps) and lossless. But Balvin can. And it sounds "bigger and stronger". The extra quality of lossless is nice when mixing/remixing the sound, a…

This is Apple and its loyal follower base (their customer base is different) we are talking about. The followers who would have gone week in the knees right after those words.

That Scoopertino post never fails to amuse me.

https://www.latimes.com/food/dailydish/la-dd-what-if-apple-m...

Re: Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio

#264
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. It’s like the fact that your eyes heck all over and I believe slightly vibrate in order to sample from slightly different positions to improve image quality.

Yeah, our eyesight is not very good without that saccade motion.

Below some movement threshold you go completely blind in just a few seconds.

One of the standard stare-at-the-dot-machine optometry tests is enough to make my vision start to gray out.

Re: Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio

#266
post #159

Its too bad that Sony - among others - have been doing their own interpretation of this for a long time, but don:t have the marketing budget or presence of mind in the broader market for people to notice. The Apple machine (i use an iPhone and M1 mini - love them) is just so OP Sony 360 Reality Audio https://www.tomsguide.com/how-to/what-is-sony-360-reality-au...

I think that's pretty typical in the world of audio in general. The average consumer has to do some fairly extensive digging in order to really understand what is available to them product and feature wise. What's new, what's old, etc.. And the info is almost always through third party reviewers.

I'm not so sure more marketing dollars would change that. Apple has the uncanny ability to generate immense amounts of buzz whenever they announce something.

Re: Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio

#267
> This means Apple Music subscribers will be able to hear the exact same thing that the artists created in the studio.

They really meant, "able to hear the exact same recording that the artists created in the studio." They didn't mean, "able to hear the exact same music that the artists created in the studio."

But even this isn't true. Many people can't hear the entire range of a recording, anyway.

Re: Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio

#268

Apple can add feature after feature, but if Music continues to split albums without warning, it's close to useless. I can't curate a music library when I can't rely on my music not being jumbled around. Dropping music for licensing issues is one thing, but messing with metadata is beyond frustrating. For arbitrary reasons, Apple Music will: remove songs from albums and re-add them to your library as the "single" or "…

> Apple can add feature after feature, but if Music continues to [random issue most people have never encountered], it's close to useless.

I've started to feel like "Apple Music as a music library" was really only intended as a bridge for people like you and me that were reluctant to abandon their obsessively curated their music library for the brave new world of streaming music. After a few years of it my listening habits have changed and I've more or less let go and stopped worrying about the drudgery of maintaining "my library".

Re: Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio

#269
post #23

From the article: > J Balvin said: [...] With Lossless, everything in the music is going to sound bigger and stronger but more importantly, it will be better quality. [...] There have been tests showing we cannot hear the difference between minimally lossy audio (e.g. mp3 320kbps) and lossless. But Balvin can. And it sounds "bigger and stronger". The extra quality of lossless is nice when mixing/remixing the sound, a…

> There have been tests showing we cannot hear the difference between minimally lossy audio (e.g. mp3 320kbps) and lossless. But Balvin can. And it sounds "bigger and stronger". On the contrary, you can actually do these tests yourself ( https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/... ). I and many others running good high end gear can repeatedly score well on these tests. Of course, it's not only the…

I use to be a sound engineer. Those "test" usually with gear they owned and you can of course tell the difference with gear you are use to. Most gear has anything but clarity. Most people will dislike clear sound.

The POINT is blind test 128 MP3 and lossless. Still the vast majority of people don't have the equipment to hear any difference.

The Second POINT is most people prefer to have boomy colored sound and again that ruins the need for lossless. This is why people prefer old vinyl records. It compresses the sound and makes it sound better in most people's opinion. If people would listen to 80s tapes I bet they would love that sound also.

The Third POINT music is heard with background noise all the time. No way while listening to music people could tell the difference and those that can it would require great concentration. There is a limited return of investment for most people.

Personally I own a DAC and a preamp and have my hundreds of dollars headphones and my Genlec speakers that cost thousands of dollars. I hear a SLIGHT difference between 320 MP3 and FLAC and that is 100% concentration and I can hear a difference in only certain types of music. Classical Jazz and Classical music. I can't tell with pop and electronic music which is what most people listen to.

Re: Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio

#270
post #124

If you're interested in what this might sound like (spatial audio) the announcement video uses it. To watch it you need to be using your iOS device + AirPods: https://music.apple.com/gb/music-movie/spatial-audio-on-appl...

Does that only have spatial audio on iOS 14.6? I'm on 14.5.1, and I just hear regular stereo, even though spatial audio works for me in the TV app.
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