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Analytics suggest 96% of users leave app tracking disabled in iOS 14.5

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Re: Analytics suggest 96% of users leave app tracking disabled in iOS 14.5

#261

Post by burke »

hparadiz wrote: post #217
azinman2 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it wasn’t hastily built, and the tracking isn’t controlled by a gov agency in the nefarious way that you’re implying.

I've seen all sorts of solutions put together by municipalities big and small from counties to states to countries and everything in between during this whole Covid thing and the thing that struck me is how easy it was for them to essentially track you with perfect precision and tie it back to a phone number. > Except it wasn’t hastily built They were built very hastily with little oversight with iterative beta cycle…

> All I implied is that your location data is being tracked and put into some database somewhere and you don't control it.

This is patently wrong. Exposure Notification apps (those using the official APIs, anyway) have no access to location APIs. The absolute worst they could possibly do is to log your IP address when you reach out for new data, but this is also true of every app you use, and every website you visit.

You don't really seem interested in understanding how they actually work, but if anyone else cares, https://ncase.me/contact-tracing/ is a pretty reasonable explanation.

Re: Analytics suggest 96% of users leave app tracking disabled in iOS 14.5

#262

Post by rednerrus »

tannhauser23 wrote: post #252
woeirua wrote: post #147

I think this speaks to the power of defaults. 96% of users have not turned this on because they didn't even know that its disabled, and when an app asks you if they can track you, the response is going to be a strong no. The reality is that FB's entire business model has been predicated on the default being that tracking is allowed. If this holds, this will be cataclysmic for FB. You can't have a huge portion of your…

How is going to be 'cataclysmic' for FB? They can still serve up ads. The ads won't be as targeted as before, but they still have billions of users. Advertisers will spend money on the platform. Perhaps they'll have to spend more since they can't fine-tune the ads as much.

The ability FB had to target ads directly to people was their biggest value add.

Re: Analytics suggest 96% of users leave app tracking disabled in iOS 14.5

#263

Post by jabroni_salad »

emmett wrote: post #184
bogwog wrote: post #133

I'm curious about the 4% of users who enabled it. Did they get tricked into doing so? Was it an accident? Or do some people out there really genuinely want to be tracked?

I enable it on purpose. I like having more relevant ads, why would I want them to show me crappy untargeted ads instead?

My attitude here is that they are welcome to target me based on the data I submitted to facebook directly and my interactions with facebook's website. Are the things I Like and the people I interact with really insufficient to create a profile for me? What I do on websites that are not facebook is none of facebook's concern, which is why I have been taking care to block those 'like' buttons that snoop on you all over the net.

Re: Analytics suggest 96% of users leave app tracking disabled in iOS 14.5

#264

Post by azinman2 »

burke wrote: post #259
hparadiz wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's one example: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.alohasafe.... No idea if it's using the official API or what. I honestly just don't believe that it can work well enough in some places. Especially here in Hawaii where gatherings are on a beach and people leave their cellphones in their car or backpacks or whatever. I was even recently at a camp where people were sharing a blunt and there wasn't a…

What are you even trying to draw attention to here? This appears to be using the EN framework, which suggests it wouldn't have been approved for distribution if it collected any personal data or location information. I get that you have an axe to grind here for some reason but I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make.

Exactly. It's not like Exposure Notifications are meant to solve every single spreading case out there -- many people aren't even opting into it. But we need all the help we can get, so why not chip away at the problem?

Re: Analytics suggest 96% of users leave app tracking disabled in iOS 14.5

#265

Post by azinman2 »

hparadiz wrote: post #238
JeremyBanks wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your choice to be ignorant about the contact tracing frameworks is your own, but please stop spreading misinformation: https://www.google.com/covid19/exposurenotifications/#exposu... There were many locations who built their own apps that did not follow this privacy model, or used it incorrectly, but for most cases "your location data being put into some database" is not accurate.

> There were many locations who built their own apps that did not follow this privacy model, or used it incorrectly We agree then.

You mentioned Apple & Google remotely installing something, so the only logical conclusion is that you're talking about Exposure Notifications (which btw are opt-in, not opt-out, so remotely installed is a mischaracterization here). If someone built their own solution and put it on the app store, then it doesn't really have much to do at all with Apple or Google outside of being distributed on their platforms, and certainly would never be remotely installed (at least on Apple platforms... I have no idea what Oppo might do in China for example, but whatever they'd be doing would likely be because some country law dictated it).

Re: Analytics suggest 96% of users leave app tracking disabled in iOS 14.5

#266

Post by bun_at_work »

phoe18 wrote: post #89
libertine wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Apple is disrupting whole economy for apps. I've been wondering why people aren't asking what kind of data is Apple itself collecting? Not only from users, but from the marketplace. Shouldn't users also give consent to what they share with Apple? Shouldn't businesses also choose to share info with Apple? This is gave us a sense of "justice as been done", but now we should look deeply into what the gatekeeper is doin…

> This is gave us a sense of "justice as been done", but now we should look deeply into what the gatekeeper is doing, to what benefit, and how balanced it made the playing field. Interestingly, Apple's Ad tracking doesn't show up under 'Settings > Privacy > Tracking' but instead tucked away at the bottom of the 'Settings > Privacy' menu. Apple's tracking also defaults to opt-out instead of the opt-in route taken for…

When you set up an iPhone or other Apple device, you're prompted and asked if you want to share you data with Apple, which makes sense because they make the device and OS.

Re: Analytics suggest 96% of users leave app tracking disabled in iOS 14.5

#267

Post by azinman2 »

lrem wrote: post #227
hparadiz wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen all sorts of solutions put together by municipalities big and small from counties to states to countries and everything in between during this whole Covid thing and the thing that struck me is how easy it was for them to essentially track you with perfect precision and tie it back to a phone number. > Except it wasn’t hastily built They were built very hastily with little oversight with iterative beta cycle…

And this is exactly why the apps failed: even HN readers don't know how they work.

And that's really a shame. It has the power to make an even larger dent in the epidemic. This is the cult of ignorance at play, where mistrust of all institutions (heavily fueled by need to get clicks to serve ads) means we can't have nice things.

Re: Analytics suggest 96% of users leave app tracking disabled in iOS 14.5

#268

Post by bun_at_work »

twobitshifter wrote: post #155
xvilo wrote: post #2

Isn't the default for "Allow Apps to Request to Track" disabled? So that would keep this number very low

No I don’t believe iOS blocks all tracking by default. I had to go into settings and enable this.

This is what all the fuss is about - the latest patch makes the ATT opt-in, instead of opt-out. Since iOS 14.5, ~2 weeks ago, it's now opt-in.

Re: Analytics suggest 96% of users leave app tracking disabled in iOS 14.5

#269

Post by coldcode »

laurent92 wrote: post #221
bserge wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All the personalized tracking shit can be replaced with a simple "users who clicked on canon printer also clicked on cheap ink refill kits" type of model That was how it was done for a long time. Advanced tracking was just a way to try and keep increasing revenue. Whether it worked or not, only the higher ups at these companies can tell... probably.

And as an advertiser, I confirm losing a lot of money trying to advertise, not seeing revenue. Choosing to advertise 25-34 males (in addition to being the definition of sexism/ageism) who type “Jira time tracking” (because “Jira” keyword is reserved anyway) is useless. I want to put an ad on websites that talk about Jira. And that requires no tracking at all.

It's only a big issue if you try to advertise a specific item on a generic platform; but if you can target websites that cater to your specific business, you really don't need anything more. Of course it means ad networks lose out since they can't just target specific people, they have to only target specific websites or apps.

Personally in the old days of newspaper ad's, I always wondered what the point was of anything smaller than a whole page; what is the point of a 1x1 inch ad in the midst of 200 others. Even today I ignore 99% of what's on the page other than the content.

Re: Analytics suggest 96% of users leave app tracking disabled in iOS 14.5

#270

Post by lurkerasdfh8 »

zibzab wrote: post #205
woeirua wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it affect Google's stock? Google has Android, and is pretty upfront about the fact that they're collecting literally everything you do on your phone. Android still has the largest installed user base, and is still feeding tons of info to FB. FB's stock prices hasn't changed because we haven't seen if this really impacts revenue to FB. We know that banner ads are extremely ineffective. So if FB ads are still…

Not a huge fan of Google, but have to defend them here. They have a pretty huge privacy section in android settings where you can see exactly what data they have on you and how to opt out and/or delete existing data. When you set up android, it ask you if your want in or out. You can even set up a new android device without a Gmail account and disable all Google services including Gmail and search. I don't belive you…

You are not wrong. But not right either.

All those nice settings (for google and everyone else) are only for the minimum they are required by law. That means anything that they can claim to be "anonymized" is fair game and not visible to you in any way.

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