Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings • Hacker News Board

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#261

Post by notyourwork » Wed, May 05, 2021, 6:57 PM UTC

munk-a wrote: post #120

notyourwork wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I don't know about this idea that interns are somehow a gateway to getting value out of people for free. Interns in experience (outside of maybe a unicorn out there) are not productive ... We use internships as a pipeline to hire. We pay them for their time, they get real world experience. We both get quality time together to see if long term this is a good fit. Those who start full time ramp up much faster and…

I had a paid internship that was essentially this and enjoyed it greatly. I wasn't paid particularly well but my workload was a project that I probably took about ten times as long to do as I would today. During the run of the internship I was brought into discussions on design and worked under someone who managed to put up with a flood of questions that I sent at them. I was hired at the end of my internship and swi…

My current company looks at internships as a way to promote working here. We want interns to be successful, learn and enjoy their time. It's a larger investment than hiring off the street but the reward for those who get full time return offers pays for itself ten times over.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#262

Post by skeeter2020 » Wed, May 05, 2021, 6:57 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #108

aiisahik wrote: post #29

People who think this is predatory have clearly NOT worked in the TV / Film industry. Doing shit jobs for free in the hopes of getting some cred is the norm. Not right but not news. BTW just because it's going to be on Netflix doesn't mean Netflix is the employer. Netflix just buys the content. The staffing / contract decisions are made by the production company.

Just because it's the norm doesn't mean it's not predatory.

Just because some people think it's fair and wouldn't accept it also doesn't mean it's wrong and should be stopped.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#263

Post by applecrazy » Wed, May 05, 2021, 6:57 PM UTC

interviewer0000 wrote: post #87

zeta0134 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the company's point of view, it seems like an internship really ought to be more of a culture fit check than anything else. It's like an extended technical interview in a way: "try on our team for size, see how it fits. Do you like the work? Do we see potential in your skills / productivity?" That sort of thing. Heck, even for experienced engineers there's a spinup time on any large technical endeavor that is so…

12 weeks in the US. In the realm of software you'll make anywhere from 20 to 50 an hour.

Some internships go higher, but those tend to be in the trading/quant software of things. (see https://www.levels.fyi/internships/)

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#264

Post by hluska » Wed, May 05, 2021, 6:58 PM UTC

ErikVandeWater wrote: post #114

happytoexplain wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is less about "can" and more about "should". It's bad for everybody when professionals work "for publicity" or are encouraged to do so, despite the relative innocence of the professional who chooses to do so. For the least subtle take on this possible, see: https://youtu.be/mj5IV23g-fE

> It's bad for everybody when professionals work "for publicity" or are encouraged to do so It's important that we not allow our moral judgments to interfere with the facts. This is obviously false.

No, it's really not. Community minded artists refuse to discount their work because discounting their work cuts out the market for young up and coming artists. Creative communities have been making these decisions for longer than I have even owned a computer.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#265

Post by bluetonium » Wed, May 05, 2021, 6:58 PM UTC

Xcelerate wrote: post #194

supernova87a wrote: post #122

This will be an unpopular opinion, but I am feeling chatty today. As long as safety + working conditions are not cruel and unusual, and someone is willing to work for $0, why are you trying to stop (or hide) that fact? Someone willing to work for less (or for free) is offering a bargain to incentivize giving him/her the business or the benefit of experience instead of more $. You restricting them from doing that does…

The issue is that with supply and demand, the market will bear poor/abusive conditions for people that have no rational ability to make a difference but superrationally would be able to do so. A prominent example is child labor laws. Before these were passed, the market would bear endangerment and injuries to children because something was better than nothing to families that had very little, and it was rationally in…

I disagree, I think the photography prices here are a good example of markets working as intended.

Prices reward people who do work that there is an unmet demand for in society. If society already has an oversaturation of professional photographers (so much so that clients feel they do not have to compete at all), the low price of $0 for professional photography work will hopefully encourage some of these glut of professional photographers (and others looking to enter the field) to pursue another profession where they can add more value.

If Netflix's contractor here has set the price too low, well then no one will apply, and they will have to set the price higher.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#266

Post by minikites » Wed, May 05, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

bityard wrote: post #241

munk-a wrote: post #21

The US continues to support unpaid work in a pretty major way. I think unpaid internships being socially acceptable is one of the roots of this insidious habit. They've been illegal up here in Canada for a while and it hasn't really caused any economic disasters. It'd be a good change to advocate for down there as well. And, honestly, internships aren't free for companies unless there is literally nothing of value be…

> I think unpaid internships being socially acceptable is one of the roots of this insidious habit. Literally _everyone_ who says this doesn't understand what an unpaid internship is, including you. An unpaid intern is essentially an entry-level newhire who never leaves the onboarding and training phase. (Unless they are subsequently hired.) They are there to learn something about the job, the company, and the people…

>Companies who abuse unpaid internships are _violating_ their agreements with education institutions and are probably breaking labor law.

Do you think the abuse of unpaid interns doesn't happen because it's against the law? And for the educational institutions, they need the companies more than the companies need them, so why would they cause a fuss?

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#267

Post by lhorie » Wed, May 05, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

aantix wrote: post #139

lhorie wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's done work in a field where "work for credits" was a common occurrence (freelance web design), I can give some perspective about why this is bad: maybe _you_ got the gig and are able to brag about how you're a "award winning photographer", but the problem is that not only you start to attract more people wanting free work in exchange for exposure, but also, these people will also try to push that agen…

Don't conflate all "work for credits" as being worthless. 'Love Is Blind' was "sampled by 30 million member households." If your business's demographic would be in a similar cohort as the show, then this work could be used to project authority. I know of this show. My wife does. If a local photographer demonstrated that they were in the show, their work is great, I would find them interesting. I wouldn't blindly give…

I was doing work for household names such as Sony and Pfizer when I got a call from some dude who wanted to implement some Facebook + Youtube grand idea for $1k and "I could put my name at the bottom". Admittedly, this merely falls in the realm of "annoying waste of time", but alas, reputation can haunt you in unexpected ways and the point is you want to cultivate networking prospects that actually provide real hard income, not low quality ones that think they can hustle you at every corner.

Our company actually got paid big bucks to work on these household name projects and they used the portfolio to full advantage to land new contracts. But here's the key thing: there was a business development team reaching out to prospective clients and putting blood and sweat into presentations and proposals. At one point, leadership decided that they were going to try the "let our brand/portfolio speak for itself" idea (which amounts to the same as expecting credits to do the work for you), and in the next town hall meeting, they were very clear that that was the worst idea they had ever tried in the history of the business.

So, sure, having a recognizable brand under your belt can serve as leverage, but as they say, a large number times zero is still zero. If a single high profile thing is the only crutch in your portfolio, or if the description of responsibilities looks inflated, people will notice that you're a one trick pony. You're still going to have to invest the time to build a proper network and reputation if you expect to be on fast-dial for household name projects.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#268

Post by sli » Wed, May 05, 2021, 7:01 PM UTC

sixQuarks wrote: post #212

supernova87a wrote: post #122

This will be an unpopular opinion, but I am feeling chatty today. As long as safety + working conditions are not cruel and unusual, and someone is willing to work for $0, why are you trying to stop (or hide) that fact? Someone willing to work for less (or for free) is offering a bargain to incentivize giving him/her the business or the benefit of experience instead of more $. You restricting them from doing that does…

I think the whole idea of this being work for $0 is incorrect. The "pay" comes in the exposure and authority the photographer will build after doing this. If you're going to hire a wedding photographer, all things being equal, if one says they did the photos for a show that you are familiar with, or appeared in magazines you're familiar with - that is worth a great deal in marketing value. A smart photographer can bu…

Your "smart" photographer will find themselves hungry and behind on rent while they're busy pretending that they're definitely gonna strike it big once they've got all this exposure. You can't cash in on it, it's not guaranteed to do anything for you, but money will always pay for food.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#269

Post by MattGaiser » Wed, May 05, 2021, 7:01 PM UTC

EricE wrote: post #252

MattGaiser wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are unpaid government/government-type internships. The UN is the most notable example. Most on Capitol Hill are also unpaid. Many local governments do it as well as they are cash strapped.

lol - those capital hill internships often result in K street positions. It’s why all those “unpaid” positions are HIGHLY contested. Just curious - have you ever earned money directly for yourself or have you only ever gotten a paycheck from a company or other person?

I completely get why they are highly contested and were I an American and politically inclined, I would take one. People wouldn’t take them if they did not see a benefit. But they exist nonetheless.

Mostly paycheck. I occasionally do freelance work and innovation prizes.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#270

Post by bww » Wed, May 05, 2021, 7:01 PM UTC

I do think this production company should just pay their vendors.

That said, and assuming that this company cares about the quality of the production and their relationship with Netflix, I doubt highly they're trying to hire the equivalent of a free intern here. They are almost certainly approaching established, professional photographers for whom it would not necessarily be out of the question to take a one-time 5-day hit on what is effectively a marketing and brand recognition expense for their business.

I'm not saying it makes sense for everyone and it would probably seem a lot less sleazy if this production company only wanted a discount instead of free work, but I don't think the fundamental idea of an established professional services business accepting a one-time loss in order to get access to opportunities they otherwise wouldn't have access to is a fundamentally wrong proposition.