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The Internet Is for Porn

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Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#261

Post by adwn »

ben_w wrote: post #241
adwn wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find BDSM quite repellent [...] orgasm-noises in porn [...] upsetting I'm not denying that some people feel that way, but it's extremely easy to avoid coming into contact with depictions of BDSM or pornographic orgasm noises – unless you deliberately browse adult content.

That style of quotation makes it seem like I personally find orgasm noises upsetting rather than that I believe others can . Was that how you understood my original comment? If so, I need to improve my style, because the latter not the former. As for orgasm noises… they are sometimes used as joke content, even outside porn, (is this similar to the way slapstick violence is used as a joke outside horror films? I’m not…

> That style of quotation makes it seem like I personally find orgasm noises upsetting rather than that I believe others can. Was that how you understood my original comment?

No, that was a failure of my editing skills. Sorry for that.

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#262

Post by syshum »

bawolff wrote: post #217
kodah wrote: post #29

Porn always reminds me of other classical debates that have no end like guns and abortion. The camps of folks in the middle who are cognitively capable of making a difference can't because the outsized voices on either side of them are screaming for either total freedom or total shutdown. They actively fear monger people out of action so no real progress is made. It prevents the best coders and business people from w…

> classical debates that have no end like guns and abortion. I think this is a pretty american centric point of view. These debates don't have anywhere near the same back and forth in other countries (thinking of canada in particular) that they do in USA. I imagine how taboo porn is is also very much a cultural phenomenon that varries a lot place to place.

Largely because the extreme end of one side already "won" the debate on those other nations, and actively suppresses and/or oppresses any dissent

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#263

Post by bonoboTP »

tomc1985 wrote: post #231
bonoboTP wrote: post #108

"Everything in life is about sex, except sex. Sex is about power." I think the debate is not really about porn, but people's sense of justice, cheating, deserving things or not etc. Some feel like porn gives unearned satisfaction to young men, a virtual substitute they don't have to work for. The bitter other side will say, no shit, I won't slave away to get screwed over, it's much more straightforward business to co…

> That it hollows out the sanctity of this intimate and symbolic act. See that's the problem. We as a society need to stop putting sex on a pedestal. It's just sex. Pleasure is pleasure, why would anyone not want to be pleasured? And why is pleasure something that has to be earned ? It is very simple to give and receive pleasure, why complicate that?

It's not just pleasure. It's intimacy, bonding hormone levels rising, etc. Why is it pleasurable? Because of evolution. Sex is complicated.

https://xkcd.com/592/

People thought that after the pill, sex will become simple and uncomplicated, just have orgies for fun all the time. But it's not happening on a large scale even in the very liberal societies. There was a brief moment with the hippies, but it didn't last long. Yes there is hookup culture, but it's far from uncomplicated. It's not everyone can easily participate in and has its own little games.

It's one of the fundamental components building our social fabric.

Why does pleasure have to be earned? I'm not sure I subscribe to that, I probably need a few decades more of contemplation and experience to answer such a thing. I'm just saying that there is such a template in many people's moralities. I think it's kind of silly, because the universe doesn't care, it's not a vending machine to put in hard work and get rewards. It's way more random and unpredictable than that. Sometimes something easy gives you lots of reward, and toiling away in the wrong way leaves you with nothing. But on the whole, on a large scale, on a population level, at the expectation, you cannot get something out of nothing, it seems. It's not a law of physics or anything. It may also seem pseudo-religious. But overall it seems to be the strategy that people adopt who achieve things. That you need to put in effort to reap rewards. Otherwise all kinds of things can happen, like hedonic adaptation, setting your baseline at a different place, inflation of the value of things etc.

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#264

Post by jodrellblank »

fnord77 wrote: post #81
alisonkisk wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are selling pictures of their body. The body gets nearly no wear and tear for the work. There's only negative presence in the sense of haters. Would you also encourage young people to avoid being Black, or Muslim, because that's a "negative presence"?

I wonder if the transactional nature of the work has an impact on the workers' relationships with people. there's always a cost.

Do you ask the same thing about waitressing and front of house retail work? Forced to put on a smile, be submissive and obedient and make a pretend connection to the customer purely to ease a transaction and get a larger tip? Does that have an impact on relationships with people?

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#265

Post by rubicon33 »

Ericson2314 wrote: post #255
rubicon33 wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome to 2020 where identity politics is the name of the game. It seems everything these days can be explained based on your race/gender and yet this is supposedly the most "woke" time ever. Cue the downvotes.

You mean "Cue"...

Cheers

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#266

Post by jonahrd »

HuwytNashi_002 wrote: post #84
vsareto wrote: post #20

I'm glad that monetized platforms like Twitch and OnlyFans exist. It's an accessible way for the younger generations to make ludicrous amounts of money for not too much up-front investment. There's definitely work and downsides involved, just not like some lesser paid, more credentialed professions. Hopefully this puts pressure on the essential jobs in society to actually raise compensation in comparison. The rest of…

You're glad that cash-strapped young women are ruining their lives for a new handbag? What prospects do they have for marriage and family after permanently uploading filth to the internet? No high quality man is sticking around after he discovers that bombshell. It has normalised this catastrophic trend. It has eliminated whatever barriers may have been in place. At a societal level, it is degrading and humiliating.…

This is an incredibly misogynistic post.

1) Assuming that making money from OnlyFans is "ruining their lives" is taking a moral high ground based on disallowing women to have control over their sexuality

2) Assuming that these women are performing just to buy handbags..... As if women don't have other reasons to need money just like everyone in society.

3) Assuming that women are searching for a "high quality man" who would disapprove of them having made money off of OnlyCams because it's "filthy". Again, places women in the passenger seat, assumes that they are only around to try to find a quality mate (male) and that their only desirable qualities are their "purity" that has somehow been tarnished.

I could go on. This is a disgusting point of view.

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#267

Post by bonoboTP »

johncena33 wrote: post #199
bonoboTP wrote: post #108

"Everything in life is about sex, except sex. Sex is about power." I think the debate is not really about porn, but people's sense of justice, cheating, deserving things or not etc. Some feel like porn gives unearned satisfaction to young men, a virtual substitute they don't have to work for. The bitter other side will say, no shit, I won't slave away to get screwed over, it's much more straightforward business to co…

> Others may feel camgirls are collecting undeserved money, they don't do actual noble valuable work, just cash in based on their genetics and immorality. As someone who is a supporter of legal sex work and pornography. The "cashing on genetics" part bothers me the most. I don't know how to process when good looking people can earn thousands of dollars almost doing nothing (particularly on digital platform like OnlyF…

> The "cashing on genetics" part bothers me the most

Well, welcome to all of life. More attractive people, taller men etc. get hired, promoted and trusted more. Not just in porn, not just in regular modeling or acting or singing, but also in any job. They get better options in the dating market.

Genetically more intelligent people have higher chances at high earning jobs.

The pattern on cashing on genetics is extremely widespread and it's also not entirely clear it can be abolished without screwing up society. We do need the right people for the right jobs. You don't want to watch ugly people's porn (except if that's your thing, no kink shaming implied!), or marry stupid people etc. etc. You may try to console yourself that individual hard work can override all that, and it can to a degree, but we like to kindle ourselves in the fairytale of the "just world fallacy". Reality is harsher.

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#268

Post by chaosharmonic »

k__ wrote: post #226
bawolff wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> classical debates that have no end like guns and abortion. I think this is a pretty american centric point of view. These debates don't have anywhere near the same back and forth in other countries (thinking of canada in particular) that they do in USA. I imagine how taboo porn is is also very much a cultural phenomenon that varries a lot place to place.

This. The debates in the US sound ridiculous to me. It's like the US is a first world country full of people from a few centuries ago.

I mean. That statement tracks pretty well if you look at our government, where the elderly are represented in elected offices at double or even triple their actual share of the population.

According to the 2010 census Americans over 65 make up under 15% of... well, Americans[0], but currently occupy 147 seats in the House (out of a possible 435) and 48 in the Senate (out of 100), along with executive branches in 15 states (out of 50).[1]

[0] https://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-03.pdf

[1] https://www.quorum.us/data-driven-insights/the-115th-congres... (note that this was originally posted in 2017, but was later updated for the 116th)

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#269

Post by kryogen1c »

burntoutfire wrote: post #43

> [About SV] An observer might note that all of these companies are dominated by men, in an industry dominated by men, tightly interwoven with a venture capital industry that is super-dominated by men. So it’s curious why none of these men have shown any interest in addressing the massive and lucrative sex work industry that overwhelmingly serves, well, men; until you consider who pays the real costs of that industry…

> It's such a primitive and toxic line of thinking

its especially a nonsense argument when you note that porn is one of the few industries with a huge pay gap - and in favor of women. its so significant that top tier actresses pay scale has a floor that is higher than the ceiling of the equivalent male talent.

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#270

Post by leereeves »

fullshark wrote: post #86
vsareto wrote: post #20

I'm glad that monetized platforms like Twitch and OnlyFans exist. It's an accessible way for the younger generations to make ludicrous amounts of money for not too much up-front investment. There's definitely work and downsides involved, just not like some lesser paid, more credentialed professions. Hopefully this puts pressure on the essential jobs in society to actually raise compensation in comparison. The rest of…

I think it's better than the alternative, as it eliminates the middle man and the performers own the content. But I imagine it will end up like most platforms for content, yielding to superstar economics and a race to the bottom for everyone else whose work has become commoditized and faces unyielding competition for attention. The vast majority of creators on OnlyFans will likely not be able to support themselves I'…

> But I imagine it will end up like most platforms for content, yielding to superstar economics and a race to the bottom for everyone else whose work has become commoditized and faces unyielding competition for attention.

With 700k creators earning a cumulative total of 700m, and a few of them earning hundreds of thousands or even millions, it sounds like it already has.

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