Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing • Hacker News Board

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#261

Post by Alupis » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 12:23 AM UTC

tomsi wrote: post #208

Alupis wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe - they seemed really not interested in negotiating much at all and I got the impression they feel that their customers should be lucky enough to be allowed to use Stripe as a processor. My company went through negotiations with Stripe earlier this year. We were more than 1.5% + $0.10 away from our current processor, and they wouldn't budge to even match our existing rates. They kept saying they are a better val…

Would you mind sharing which processor you are using? Seriously considering moving away from Stripe after todays news and since we have to implement basic subscription handling ourselves anyways or pay more ransom to stripe. Would be much appreciated.

We do not make use of any automated billing/subscription features, so what works for us isn't necessarily what will work for you.

I believe they've changed the name now, but we're using what used to be call PayPal Payments Pro, which is just a processor (customers stay on your checkout page, you build the checkout form, no PayPal account necessary for the customer, etc). We were using CyberSource when PayPal approached us for negotiations - they ultimately made an offer we couldn't refuse (based on volume) and made the switch. This CC Processor product from PayPal has none of the baggage or horror stories you hear from people using PayPal Express Checkout - it's almost like you're dealing with a completely different company.

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#262

Post by brianwawok » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 12:38 AM UTC

gizmo wrote: post #239

pc wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great -- if you reach out to support@stripe.com with "billing pricing extension" in the subject, it'll go to the right folks.

Does this billing price extension only apply to people who read HN, or will there be a newsletter informing all your customers of this new policy?

I emailed before I saw this and got an offer of 3 months.

So maybe but not as good of one?

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#263

Post by prawn » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 12:39 AM UTC

jdreaver wrote: post #109

radihuq wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks pc! OT: You're very active, and usually one of the first to get involved, in Stripe-related discussions on HN. I'm curious how you manage this. Do you lurk HN all day like me and spot the new Stripe-related threads, or do others at Stripe let you know when they see a Stripe-related thread?

I've always wondered if there is a business opportunity here: a company that monitors social media for all mentions of your business and pings you about it. Maybe this already exists?

Media monitoring companies have been around for some time. There are companies with people transcribing talkback radio and reporting to clients (including sentiment, etc) for companies and topics mentioned. Would be easier to automate in the age of social media too, so bound to be dozens of upstarts focusing on that.

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#264

Post by brianwawok » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 12:49 AM UTC

jb775 wrote: post #245

edwinwee wrote: post #29

Edwin from Stripe here. It’s worth distinguishing between charging money on Stripe (for which you incur payments pricing) and using Stripe Billing (which is a separately-paid product). Stripe Billing has had this pricing for a few years. For some longtime users of Subscriptions, we originally didn’t change their pricing but are doing so now. We think charging a separate fee for our Billing product is fair, given comp…

At the end of the day, you're using electricity to send around a bunch of 1's and 0's. The amount of electricity used doesn't change much whether it represents $10 or $100,000...so why do you need a percentage of the total? I understand existing banking structures already work on the percentage model (so there's probably downstream percentage-based charges Stripe must pay), but why can't this entire banking structure…

It can be, but one of the big guys will buy you and raise the price of your product.

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#265

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 1:16 AM UTC

pc wrote: post #149

cabalos wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel that spinning this as a several-year grace period is a bit disingenuous. I'm a huge Stripe fan, but this is leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Here's the exact notification that went out on April 6, 2018 in the dashboard: "As a user of Stripe Subscriptions, you will get all the functionality of Stripe Billing's starter plan with no change in price. You can continue using it free of charge on your existing Stripe…

You're right. It would have been a lot better if we'd made explicit that we weren't intending to make a permanent commitment. This is good feedback for the next time we do something like this. (Our actual thinking was that we'd iterate on the product for a few years until we were confident it was good and worth paying for -- with both large and small companies using and paying for it -- and then revisit.)

[deleted]

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#266

Post by nodesocket » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 1:23 AM UTC

jb775 wrote: post #121

I love how a Ycombinator company can quickly get a HN story title changed to censor the whole "price increase" aspect being debated here.

Seriously when does this go into effect? Where is the blog post or e-mail notification? The HN link just goes to the billing landing page?

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#267

Post by dang » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 1:27 AM UTC

gnicholas wrote: post #260

dang wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally anyone can quickly get a HN story title changed if they let us know how an existing title is inaccurate. This is bog-standard moderation which we do all day every day, and it is certainly not limited to YC cos. The intention is to have a front page with accurate and neutral titles. Call that censorship if you want to (as far as I can tell, that word is just a pejorative for editing that someone doesn't like…

Seems like there should be a mention of a price increase. The current title gives no indication that pricing would change for anyone who isn't choosing to go out and purchase this Stripe Billing product. This thread is newsworthy for a lot of folks because they are learning that a feature that they thought they were paying for through the standard fees is now only available if they pay extra for a bundle of other stu…

That's a fair point. I put that in the title above.

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#268

Post by ewhauser421 » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 1:29 AM UTC

pc wrote: post #93

(Stripe cofounder.) Hi folks -- as Edwin points out elsewhere in the thread, the article title isn't accurate. (I'll update or delete my comment if it's fixed.) [Update: it was changed. It used to read "Stripe is now charging 0.5% more for recurring charges."] You can happily make recurring charges yourself and no additional fees are incurred. Lots of Stripe customers do this and we don't charge anything extra for it…

Patrick,

I think Stripe does a lot of things right, but your comments back in 2018 certainly indicated that Billing could be used in perpetuity:

"- For existing customers, there's no pricing change. You just get more functionality than before for free. This is what we generally try to do: we want Stripe to continually become better value for you over time, as you get more functionality for the same price."

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16766846

I specifically reached out to Stripe support back then to verify this would be the case and they confirmed. If you've since changed your mind, I think you should come out and say that's the case as opposed to saying this is a communications issue.

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#269

Post by lomoeffect » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 1:41 AM UTC

nickjj wrote: post #129

candiddevmike wrote: post #35

In my opinion, no one should be using recurring billing for any provider. If you do, you've basically tied yourselves to them--if you ever decide to move, you need to somehow get the subscription details for every customer migrated into your app! Instead, view your payment processor as just another PaymentProcessor enum. Own the recurring subscriptions yourself, or be willing to pay for someone to do it for you.

I think this is good advice or at least seriously worth considering it. I remember DHH from Basecamp mentioning this once a few years ago. I forgot if I asked him on Twitter or if someone else did, but it came down to asking why Basecamp doesn't use Stripe's subscription API. He said it didn't exist at the time but he also said it wasn't a ton of work to get it all working using the basic single charge API. Details a…

There's a few startups in this space: see Spreedly, Optile etc. In my experience large enterprises are heading in this direction and managing that abstraction is not something which they want to do themselves (particularly with evolving local regulation/APMs/3DS2.x in Europe).

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#270

Post by AlchemistCamp » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 1:46 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #116

I've changed the title from "Stripe is now charging 0.5% more for recurring charges", which apparently is misleading, to one that is, though clunky, apparently accurate. If anyone can suggest a better title—that is, accurate and neutral, and preferably with less clunk—we can change it again.

> "Stripe is now charging 0.5% more for recurring charges", which apparently is misleading...

Stripe is indeed stating they'll start charging me 0.5% more for a service they said would be free for me when I signed up. They've done this by renaming the service from subscriptions to billing and adding features to it that I've never used. According to others in this thread, the message they sent out two years ago was:

> "Your account has been upgraded to Stripe Billing for free. No matter how much revenue you process on Stripe, you’ll get unlimited use of Billing’s Starter plan included in the price you currently pay for payments. All new features are available in your account now, no API version upgrade necessary."

This is what I remember as well.

I'd say a good title would be, "YC-funded Stripe moves Subscription customers to Billing, increases their fees and breaks earlier promises". The original title isn't as nuanced but is still more accurate than the current one, IMO.