Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#261

Post by quotha » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 8:39 PM UTC

ping_pong wrote: post #183

How is this legal? Apple is so blinded by their arrogance that they don't see that this will lead to the App Store getting severely regulated. Look at Uber for a great example. It took years, but Uber and Lyft were finally handed a business-destroying law that will hurt them. It will only take a few months for the rest of the US to adopt similar strategies as well. After the congressional hearings a few weeks ago, Ap…

I hear ya, but something smells real bad about how Epic decided to wage this war. They were clearly picking this fight, now I am not sure that was such a good idea.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#262

Post by grishka » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 8:39 PM UTC

baddox wrote: post #199

josephcsible wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a misleading question, because on other platforms you can choose to avoid the store. A better question would be "what's the lowest cut you need to give up to distribute to users of these other platforms?". And the answer to that is zero on basically all of them except iOS.

> That's a misleading question, because on other platforms you can choose to avoid the store. That's definitely not true. You cannot run unsigned code on most video game consoles. And for PC game marketplaces, those platforms still have market power. Surely there's a big difference between being banned from Steam and being banned from the Discord Store.

Video game consoles are specialized hardware. They do one thing and they do it well. It's kind of understandable that these companies want to review anything released for those. They want to ensure that games are of high quality so as to not hurt the reputation of the platform itself. They want games to help sell consoles. And that's how video game consoles always worked.

iPhones, on the other hand, are not specialized. They're general-purpose devices at this point — both by design and by how Apple markets them. The problem is, both developers and users see the app store and its policies as a nuisance.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#263

Post by dwild » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 8:39 PM UTC

nxc18 wrote: post #180

hu3 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really hope Apple keeps charging 30% app tax and forbidding us from installing apps from outside of App Store?

Yes. In particular, I don't ever want to be in the position that PC users are stuck in, where they can be forced to install certain stores just to get access to the games they want to play. And I certainly don't want to be stuck in the position that Android users are in, where they have to worry about what store they're using, where the software comes from, and whether the app they're about to install is legitimate a…

> I don't ever want to be in the position that PC users are stuck in, where they can be forced to install certain stores just to get access to the games they want to play.

You realize that the alternative... is no game, right? That's what Epic is showing to consumers...

I'm pretty sure you answered yes here, now you do realize that you aren't forced to install certain stores, not installing them would only remove your capacities to... get that game that wouldn't happen either way in your better scenario.

The only time you are forced on anything, is right now with Apple, where you can't install that others app store that would allow you to get that game. On Android, you got that choice. I don't have the Epic Launcher on my Android phone, just like you don't on your iOS device, the difference is that I chose not to.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#264

Post by m-p-3 » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 8:40 PM UTC

fatbird wrote: post #172

pmontra wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then customers that want that product go to another store chain. This makes stores think twice before banning some products or brands. There is only one store in iOS country.

But there are several stores in mobile country, and more again in platform country. Drawing the boundary of the market around iOS seems circular. "They're a monopoly because they have 100% of the market share on the market that's specific to them."

Can I bring back my iPhone back to the store if the app I want is banned after the sale happened?

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#265

Post by xemoka » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 8:40 PM UTC

Solstinox wrote: post #27

Bud wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more like, why did Epic decide to file a spurious legal action when their situation with Apple is exactly the same as their situation with Microsoft (for XBox) and with Sony (for PlayStation) and with Google (for Android). The only difference is that Sony just invested $250M in Epic. I'm sure that minor fact has no relevance here, though. (sarcasm most certainly intended)

Epic's intent is clear. No need to ask why. Apple's handling of the situation is baffling. "Let's martyr the smaller company!"

Every company is smaller than Apple (for certain definitions of "smaller").

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#266

Post by ayoisaiah » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 8:40 PM UTC

baddox wrote: post #193

bryanlarsen wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

60% market share by revenue in 2019. https://www.businessofapps.com/data/app-revenues/

Isn't that just because Apple's customers are more willing to spend money on apps than other customers?

Willing is not the right word. They generally have a greater means to do so.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#267

Post by baddox » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 8:41 PM UTC

brmgb wrote: post #224

baddox wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being banned from the iOS App Store also doesn't make your software unusable on Windows, or Mac, or any other non-iOS platform. The App Store's exclusivity is precisely the same as that of nearly every video game console.

> The App Store's exclusivity is precisely the same as that of nearly every video game console. I don't understand why you keep bringing up video game consoles in this discussion. 1. You seem to believe people actually agree with the way console stores work. This is not the case. 2. The fact that the situation is also terrible somewhere else doesn't absolve Apple of anything. That's not how justice works.

If you are consistent in your claims and believe that all computing devices, including smartphones, game consoles, e-book readers, GPS watches, car entertainment centers, etc. should be required to provide a way for owners to run unsigned code, then my accusations of inconsistency do not apply to you.

In fact, I see much much less vitriol aimed towards game console store policy than iOS App Store policy. That's why I mention it.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#268

Post by quotha » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 8:41 PM UTC

ajkjk wrote: post #12

carabiner wrote: post #4

Epic's "trap" seemed terribly tonedeaf. This will not end well for them.

Really? I got the opposite impression. Apple's tonedeafness and developer hostility is finally being challenged by a (comparative) underdog.

Do you really want Epic to be your shiny knight? They are going to a fight with a big smile and are going to get their skull crushed!

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#269

Post by mulletbum » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 8:42 PM UTC

unchar1 wrote: post #181

Razengan wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should Epic get to enjoy a market that Apple built without giving Apple anything or following the rules of the platform? Should anybody be able to post anything they want on HN or YouTube or Facebook etc.? They can't. Does Epic allow anyone to sell content for Fortnite without giving Epic any money? They don't.

Actually developers built the market. Without that Apps on the App store, the iPhone is worth almost nothing.

It would still be a phone.

That said, of course developers built the market, but not every developer built the market. Apple developers built it. Other developers have chosen to sell inside of it.

Without Apple Developers creating the store itself those developers couldn't sell anything. Apple could 100% do that if they wanted. In fact, the first iPhone was as such.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#270

Post by brmgb » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 8:43 PM UTC

Bud wrote: post #18

ajkjk wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I got the opposite impression. Apple's tonedeafness and developer hostility is finally being challenged by a (comparative) underdog.

Do you think that Google, Microsoft, and Sony are also hostile and tone-deaf, then? One assumes so. All those platforms extract the same kinds of fees from Epic that Apple does. But mysteriously, Epic only wants to go after Apple.

> Do you think that Google, Microsoft, and Sony are also hostile and tone-deaf, then?

Yes, they are all trying very hard to get regulated. The situation is not particularly far from the one that gave rise to the Sherman Act. Provided the situation is not already covered by existing anti competition laws, I am ready to bet it soon will be.