NSA Owns Everything (2015) • Hacker News Board

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#261

Post by lern_too_spel » Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 9:21 PM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #257

lern_too_spel wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since there isn't any evidence that it did happen, the fact that it is illegal is a pretty good reason to believe that it didn't happen. When you consider that Snowden released a trove of internal documents not vetted by the secret keepers, and none of them show that it did happen (while many of those documents cite the law for why it should not happen), that provides further circumstantial evidence that it didn't ha…

> the fact that it is illegal is a pretty good reason to believe that it didn't happen And yet I believe crime exists regardless of its legality. > Snowden released a trove of internal documents not vetted by the secret keepers Why on earth should the secret keepers be the ones to vet documents about themselves when they are being whistleblown on?

You seem to have misunderstood both points.

> And yet I believe crime exists regardless of its legality.

Well over 99% of the time, the government does not go out of their way to break laws. I didn't claim that the fact that it is illegal proves they didn't do it. I simply said that the fact that it is illegal makes it more likely that they didn't do it. Do you disagree?

> Why on earth should the secret keepers be the ones to vet documents about themselves when they are being whistleblown on?

Who said they should? My point was that despite the fact that they weren't combed through by the secret keepers, the documents did not say that the NSA did the illegal things that GGP claimed. Instead, these documents supported the opposite conclusion — that the NSA didn't do those things — by repeatedly citing the laws that they follow that don't allow them to do those things.

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#262

Post by ciarannolan » Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 10:10 PM UTC

justanotheranon wrote: post #260

ciarannolan wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting article, but I think you're way over drawing your conclusions. > how much would you bet that NSA is NOT bulk hacking WiFi routers of ENTIRE US CITIES FROM THE AIR? I would bet very good money that they are not doing this. If SECONDDATE has been around since 2005, and they are bulk installing it on millions of routers in the US, where are the people coming out saying "I found some NSA shit on my router"? I…

are you so sure about that? https://m.startribune.com/mystery-surveillance-plane-that-ci... https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2015/06/02/secret-aerial-fbi-... since at least 2014, the FBI has a secret air force of over 100 planes that fly constant circles over the biggest US cities. what do you think FBI is doing? joy riding? https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/03/new-foia-documents-con... those FBI planes are equipped w…

Again, your original claim:

> Anyone on WiFi AC or up are backdoored right now by NSA. All of them are compromised, no doubt in my mind. All the LTE. All the x86 hardware on the market. All of it.

Still _zero_ evidence of any of this. Why not post some?

You also ignore questions like..

> If SECONDDATE has been around since 2005, and they are bulk installing it on millions of routers in the US, where are the people coming out saying "I found some NSA shit on my router"? Is there a _single_ example to support this?

> Just this week a 20GB dump of private Intel source was dumped with backdoors included. > That's the sort of thing that's going to happen again with the newly published Intel backdoors. >> This is not even remotely true. You have to read more than just the headlines.

> If SECONDDATE has been around since 2005, and they are bulk installing it on millions of routers in the US, where are the people coming out saying "I found some NSA shit on my router"? Is there a _single_ example to support this?

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#263

Post by sanderjd » Sat, Aug 15, 2020, 4:21 AM UTC

amiga_500 wrote: post #123

sanderjd wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I happen to be reading a biography of Alexander Hamilton right now and I think Washington was pretty disappointed in the people of his own time too. And the members of each faction thought the members of the other factions were "un-American" (though I don't think they had that term). The founding era was not a golden age, there's always been a battle for control of our culture.

I would agree that he had high standards, but he was mostly unhappy with some rank-and-file who were coerced into joining up, so I can hardly blame them. Other factions were not part of the whole at that point, so there was no back-stabbing there, to begin with. Would he have been happy if he found out one of his immediate reports had been helping the French to get gunpowder in for a cut? Analogous to the wholesale t…

Yes, Chernow. It is quite good and I think would give you a better sense for the extent of the factionalism in that time.

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#264

Post by somesortofsystm » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 11:06 AM UTC

chacha2 wrote: post #220

somesortofsystm wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a society governed through secrets, we can never know what the sovereign is really doing in our name. This is the case with the USA today - it is not truly an open society, but one of layers .. and those with the 'special privilege' of having security clearances are desperate to maintain that socially high-class standing among themselves, so they wrap more and more secret agency around the issue so that the genera…

Socialism is when the Government does stuff. Rich capitalists lobbying and corrupting the Government to give their private organizations more money is Socialism. Socialism is destroying America!! Can't you see??!

Specifically, the American Military-Industrial complex is a socialist welfare state hell-bent on owning all means of production in America, yes. It produces nothing of any value to society, and demands that it be fed from the coffers before anything else.

And yes, it is the American government doing this.

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#265

Post by voces » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 12:50 AM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #256

BickNowstrom wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snowden was even willing to burn his future career, as he took a job with Booz Allen Hamilton with the sole purpose of leaking as much information as he could get his hands on. As an admin at BAH he was using his colleagues' passwords for discovery. He was willing to burn their careers to hack access to more leaks. So much leaks that he could not vet these all. This was no Ellsberg tasked with copying some confidenti…

> instead of making his point with his own whistleblower findings, he went to journalists and handed them over all the documents This is literally part of what whistleblowers do. > instead of facing justice (and there are whistleblower protections for doing the right thing) Whistleblower protections that didn’t really exist? > causing a permanent PR disaster for US intelligence One which they got for callously breaki…

> This is literally part of what whistleblowers do.

No, this is outsourcing your whistleblowing activities to journalists. It is leaking unvetted data in the hope that there is something of public note/damaging to your employer in there (of course there is, top secret and noforn classifications are there for a reason)

> Whistleblower protections that didn’t really exist?

They existed. Just because Snowden did not like his chances with American justice does not mean whistleblower protections do not exist. Obama even pardoned Chelsea Manning (I believe that leak was part of a suicidal life style).

> One which they got for callously breaking the law?

I am not saying the PR disaster is not warranted. I am noting the extend of the PR disaster. I am also adding the soft-ball questions from journalists, and Snowden's meticilously prepared talking points.

> What kind of confirmation do you want? You can’t just put things in quotes and hope to weaken them.

The NSA coming out and saying these documents are real. Thread OP was talking about proof, but proof requires a better standard. Of course, it is highly likely these were real documents, and the Chinese or Russians did not add false documents to muddy it, like they do with their own leaks. I actually added the quotes, not to be pedantic, but to ward against pedantic replies.