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Why is there only one Snap Store?

merlijn.sebrechts.be

261–270 of 362 posts

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#261

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They're public keys so they can be in plaintext and protected by 0644. They don't really have to be different from apt keys.

You still need to protect from getting updated by errors or malicious code. For apt you have utilities to edit the keys you don't edit a test file by hand.

Would canonical be interested in accepting such a patch?

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ISTM that anything which lets you install multiple versions side by side will require each version to have pinned versions of dependencies, transitively, until it's very close to the dominant node, which ultimately is the OS API, which in turn, done right, is backward compatible. You can implement that versioned dependency DAG as a database of versioned libraries etc. combined with a version pinning database; or you…

For the record Flatpak solves the same issue without mountpoint spam by using OSTree zo store flatpaks and their shared runtimes. Not only that, it gets full deduplication of everything and diff downloads just by using OSTree. AFAIK Snap has no deduplication of installed stuff & not even any dhared runtimes. Not sure if it has diff downloads.

Snap has all of that too.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snap is auto-updating and you can't stop it [0]. I actually liked the idea of the snaps on paper, especially combined with Ubuntu Core for running lightweight VMs (via LXD). But the tone on that exchange and the "we know best" attitude put me off it. I have an Ubuntu 20.04 installed for tests on one of my home machines, and from time to time I catch doing who knows what. What tips me off is seeing the drive light goi…

On paper snap is great, but at this point we've got better alternatives. If you want to use something snap-like either flatpak or appimage will likely work and be way less user-hostile.

I didn't look closely into either flatpak nor appimage. But I get the advantages of such a system and I think it might actually help with the "Linux on the desktop situation". It's very easy to deploy something with restricted access to the file system, something that has all its dependencies in one place, that updates atomically, etc. It's also nice for random app vendors to be able to know that all their users are on the latest version, or not far behind. Could even push some devs to consider going back to desktop apps, as opposed to the web, knowing that they wouldn't have to deal with 1234 different, obsolete versions because someone's grandma didn't update her system in years.

After spending some time reading the exchanges on the posted link, I've come to the conclusion that the actual problem with snaps might not be snapd nor the automatic updating in and of themselves.

Rather, the problem seems to be a scope mismatch. This whole snap thing looks to me as something that should be aimed squarely at the "desktop user". I use that term as opposed to "system use". So distributing Spotify or whatever via snaps? Great! LXD for a home user to test? Sure! But as a way of managing low-level system components on production boxes? No way!

So I have to say I don't necessarily take an issue with Ubuntu pushing this on the desktop version. Sure, it is a pain by certain aspects, main one being slow startup for apps. But pushing this on Ubuntu Core in its actual state is, to me, the real issue. Sure, apparently you can run your own "Snap Proxy" or whatever they call it, which allows you to manually approve upgrades, etc. But why go through this trouble? It seems easier to just run apt-get from a central location when you want and for the packages and versions that you want.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#264

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To be completely honest, if Canonical ever wants the theoretical "year of the Linux desktop" to happen, they need a way to get proper cloud accounts working. A big part of the value of Apple's ecosystem is iCloud. Microsoft has done the same thing with the syncing and cross platform capabilities of their Microsoft Accounts. Most Linux users today don't care much if they need to create separate email, cloud storage, b…

For my money, the year of the Linux Desktop was 2008. It's just that nobody noticed. Since 2008, Linux has had the best combination of performance and hardware support on older machines, and the advantage has only grown since then. Windows and MacOS keep falling further behind in usability on machines older than four years, and that's the only hardware I would purchase for personal use. Why throw your money away on p…

> MacOS keep falling further behind in usability on machines older than four years

The huge user base of folks running thunderbolt 2 based MacBook pros from 2015 or earlier seems to disagree and a vocal minority of them say you can pry that model from their cold dead hands here on HN. It’s supported by the latest OSes with zero penalty, performance or otherwise.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#265
post #165

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I was excited for Ubuntu Core and then "noped" out as soon as I saw the Ubuntu SSO account requirement. I'm not going to use an OS that you can't login to without it phoning home to a third party.

You realize that's literally just to fetch SSH keys, right? It's the authentication method so they don't have to provide a default password. It's not some sort of phone-home method.

Yeah giving a third party the ability to control what ssh keys get provisioned on a machine isn't a big deal.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#266

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You seem to be suggesting that servers don't run dbus. It is currently running on all my servers and I'm pretty sure it is standard on all major server oriented distros.. Am I mistaken or did I misunderstand your point?

Traditionally you don't want to have xorg installed on a server. If you do have it installed then yes, you would have dbus.

No Xorg, just dbus.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Graphic performance is excellent if you don't insist on say using Nvidia hardware with the open source Nouveau drivers everyone knows sucks. Open source AMD and closed source Nvidia both provide good performance. Going with just US figures the average spent on a computer in 2020 is 632 usd total. A high end card on the other hand is $400 to $800 each. a 2000-3000 pc with 800-1600 in graphics hardware is probably some…

I appreciate you proving my point. High end desktops are not viable on Linux, which is a shame, because I really wanted it to work.

I give you a variety of points and all I get back is a single flip quip. This is a disappointing rejoinder.

You CAN have a high end desktop. You can even have 3-6 monitors if it makes you happy. The only thing you cannot do is plug your monitors into the outputs of both GPUs. You must purchase GPUs wherein a single GPU has sufficient outputs and let the secondary GPU serve to aid in your favorite GPU compute or game playing adventure.

For example

https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-radeon-rx-vega-64-gv-rxvega6...

This supports 6 displays and crossfire so it plays well with lots of displays and multiple GPU.

Stepping up further in price

https://www.newegg.com/evga-geforce-rtx-2080-super-08g-p4-32...

Supports 4 displays and SLI

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For my money, the year of the Linux Desktop was 2008. It's just that nobody noticed. Since 2008, Linux has had the best combination of performance and hardware support on older machines, and the advantage has only grown since then. Windows and MacOS keep falling further behind in usability on machines older than four years, and that's the only hardware I would purchase for personal use. Why throw your money away on p…

> MacOS keep falling further behind in usability on machines older than four years The huge user base of folks running thunderbolt 2 based MacBook pros from 2015 or earlier seems to disagree and a vocal minority of them say you can pry that model from their cold dead hands here on HN. It’s supported by the latest OSes with zero penalty, performance or otherwise.

I'm using a 2012 model, won't ever replace it unless it breaks. Has been working perfectly with all updates and upgrades for 5+yrs

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#269
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For my money, the year of the Linux Desktop was 2008. It's just that nobody noticed. Since 2008, Linux has had the best combination of performance and hardware support on older machines, and the advantage has only grown since then. Windows and MacOS keep falling further behind in usability on machines older than four years, and that's the only hardware I would purchase for personal use. Why throw your money away on p…

In terms of usability, yes, but the problem with Linux in recent years has rarely been usability, it's the lack of workstation-level applications that are readily available on Windows and MacOS. As long as Linux lacks native support for Autodesk, Adobe CC, Office 365, FL Studio, Pro Tools, etc. and dozens of other niche programs by ISVs it will never approach the mainstream with any sort of widespread appeal. Current…

> Linux lacks native support for Autodesk, Adobe CC, Office 365, FL Studio, Pro Tools

I understand your point but I've been using Ubuntu since 2009 and never needed any of those programs. I do another job (web development, mostly backend.)

Actually I had to run the real Excel (not LibreOffice) for a project many years ago. I created a VM with VirtualBox, got a license for Excel from my customer and installed it there.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#270

That reminds me of the stake Ubuntu Core was born with in its heart: > An Ubuntu SSO account is required to create the first user on an Ubuntu Core installation. They just keep flinging shit at nothing and hoping to hit a wall they can build a gate in. They're trying to boil the frog slowly with Snap on the Server/Desktop branches. There is no possible genuine motive for these maneuverings to be in the position of ga…

There are so many FOSS projects out there that we use at work that we're willing to contribute financially to. Either for support, or for specific feature development, or as as donation masked as one of the two. But as you mentioned, the second a vendor introduces code that creates _another_ external dependency, we have to walk away.
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