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Why is there only one Snap Store?

merlijn.sebrechts.be

161–170 of 362 posts

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#161
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A mounted FS per installed application so you can run different versions side by side. I like it for large standalone apps, less so for command-line utilities. It easily beats untarring some third-party thing to /opt.

> A mounted FS per installed application so you can run different versions side by side. Does it strike anyone else as very telling that people looked at the problem of "we can't install more than one version of an application at a time because of how we structure our filesystem and hardcode paths" and decided that the solution was "let's give each application its own filesystem!"?

ISTM that anything which lets you install multiple versions side by side will require each version to have pinned versions of dependencies, transitively, until it's very close to the dominant node, which ultimately is the OS API, which in turn, done right, is backward compatible.

You can implement that versioned dependency DAG as a database of versioned libraries etc. combined with a version pinning database; or you can simply use disk space, and keep a copy of every dependency and put each in its own subtree, making the version pinning database implicit in the tree construction.

I don't see the latter solution as being intrinsically worse than the former. I don't think there's a real alternative either; the most reliable set of dependencies is the same set as the original binary was built and tested with.

(And of course it's not just libraries, but also configs of various flavours, assets, etc. If you didn't use the subtree approach, you'd need to reimplement it in a shim layer to simulate it, in order to package yesterday's applications today.)

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#163
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things they're currently doing that benefit the larger Linux community as a whole: - still engaging with vendors into making hardware work on Linux - they're contributing optimizations to gnome 3 - their still massive user base is testing stuff, discovering bugs and then those things get fixed upstream or at least get into Debian - making bad decisions so people jump off Ubuntu and go back to Debian, my beloved distr…

> - making bad decisions so people jump off Ubuntu and go back to Debian, my beloved distro Amen. Debian is the best.

> Debian is the best.

I just really wish they had an answer to Ubuntu's HWE stack[1] for mid-Stable hardware updates :(

(Backports don't count due to their ad-hoc & unsupported nature)

[1]: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

• Nothing available that's as lightweight and good as Apple's "office"-type suite. • Nothing as all-around good as Preview (yes, seriously). • Worse battery life, partly due to worse OS optimizations and partly due to not having Safari available. Solutions to this in Linux that actually yield good results usually involve hard-capping performance at a pretty low level, IME. • Little things like screen recording and sc…

> • Nothing available that's as lightweight and good as Apple's "office"-type suite. I personally create markdown documents in vis (a text editor like vim, but lighterweight — > • Nothing as all-around good as Preview (yes, seriously). Not having ever needed to fill out a PDF form, I won’t comment. > • Worse battery life, partly due to worse OS optimizations and partly due to not having Safari available. Solutions to…

Yeah, I get there are other reasons people choose Linux—I do too, as I find Win10 intolerable as a working environment so if I'm not on Apple hardware, Linux is my only realistic option for getting things done while still being able to interact alright with the world outside my own computer. I just think that's a small set of the reasons one might find any Linux OS to represent a serious loss of functionality, versus macOS. I agree it'd be cool if more major/trendy design tools were cross-platform, but I work with what I've got.

I don't think the default US keyboard layout on mac makes typing superscript unicode easy but it looks like there are a ton of ways to make it easier, by pointy-clicky through the GUI settings to add either of a couple ways of typing them, by editing a keymap file, or yeah, by using any of several programs like Karabiner. That'd actually be a great addition to the default US English keyboard on mac—a toggle for Unicode super-/sub-script modes.

[EDIT] incidentally, have you observed significant power savings with Webkit browsers on Linux? I like Surf and given FF's ongoing shake-ups I'm giving other browsers a look again, for my browsing-on-Linux needs. On macOS I see something like a 15-20% gain in real-world battery life and noticeably-better overall system responsiveness, using Safari over Chrome or Firefox. Is a similar, dramatic effect noticeable in Webkit ports to other operating systems?

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#165

That reminds me of the stake Ubuntu Core was born with in its heart: > An Ubuntu SSO account is required to create the first user on an Ubuntu Core installation. They just keep flinging shit at nothing and hoping to hit a wall they can build a gate in. They're trying to boil the frog slowly with Snap on the Server/Desktop branches. There is no possible genuine motive for these maneuverings to be in the position of ga…

I was excited for Ubuntu Core and then "noped" out as soon as I saw the Ubuntu SSO account requirement. I'm not going to use an OS that you can't login to without it phoning home to a third party.

You realize that's literally just to fetch SSH keys, right? It's the authentication method so they don't have to provide a default password. It's not some sort of phone-home method.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#166

Ahaha crap on all sides. Please come to Nix (or, hell, GUIX) and side-step all these issues.

Nix is really cool! You can actually use Nix to build Snap packages! Not sure if that's actually used a lot though.

One of the advantages of Snap over Nix is that snap has security builtin. Snap is built to support a store where anyone can publish any application without curation. Nix Flakes look really cool for third-parties to "publish" applications for Nix, but I wonder how they will do security..

In Snap, the default permissions of an app are stored and distributed out-of-band with the package itself. The package defines what permissions it _can_ use and the declaration defines what permissions it is _allowed_ to use by default. Users can then override the default permissions.

You could get the same level of confinement in a Nix package, but then the package contains both the app and the confinement, so the packager or software provider gets to decide what permissions a package has on your system. Any idea how Nix could address this?

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#167

It does not seem that the author is affiliated with Canonical. Ideally, Canonical should be the ones defending their product. IMO, it is okay for the backend to be propriety as long there is a published, easy to implement protocol for talking to snapd (along with an accessible way for clients to configure snapd). Otherwise, there is lock-in to the service. It's not just the FOSS community that should be concerned, bu…

Canonical has defended their product in many places. This article contains a lot of the same info, for example: https://www.techrepublic.com/article/why-canonical-views-the...

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#168

It's not for nothing that Snap is considered dangerous by SUSE and is not officially supported. They even fail basic upstream responsibilities. https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3906 > A year later, in the Ubuntu 20.04 package base, the Chromium package is indeed empty and acting, without your consent, as a backdoor by connecting your computer to the Ubuntu Store. Applications in this store cannot be patched, or pinned.…

> It's not for nothing that Snap is considered dangerous by SUSE and is not officially supported. They even fail basic upstream responsibilities. Care to provide a link to support your claims?

The security issues SUSE raised were actually fixed, but the Snap developers did not respond quickly enough with the info that the issues were fixed.

> I'd like to point out that the reason for the closure was not a failure at addressing any of the raised issues, but a failure to reply to either of the requests for a status update in July and September.

https://twitter.com/sysrich/status/1206593475833151488

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#169

That reminds me of the stake Ubuntu Core was born with in its heart: > An Ubuntu SSO account is required to create the first user on an Ubuntu Core installation. They just keep flinging shit at nothing and hoping to hit a wall they can build a gate in. They're trying to boil the frog slowly with Snap on the Server/Desktop branches. There is no possible genuine motive for these maneuverings to be in the position of ga…

To be completely honest, if Canonical ever wants the theoretical "year of the Linux desktop" to happen, they need a way to get proper cloud accounts working. A big part of the value of Apple's ecosystem is iCloud. Microsoft has done the same thing with the syncing and cross platform capabilities of their Microsoft Accounts. Most Linux users today don't care much if they need to create separate email, cloud storage, b…

My “cloud account“ is on linode and it’s cheaper, less of a hassle, and more feature complete than Microsoft’s/google’s/apple’s offerings.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#170
post #62

Have they fixed the unearthly slowness of SquashFS? Is there a filesystem out there that is slower?

The fault isn't SquashFS itself but the compression they use. They use an old compression algorithm by default to support older kernels. They are working on optionally enabling quicker compression on distros that support it though.

See this for more info: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/squashfs-performance-effect-on-...

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