U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#261

Post by jandrese » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 6:15 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #246

_bxg1 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very interesting. Is this the first time a major city has fallen within a reservation?

Don't know if you'd qualify it as a "major" city, but over 10% of Palm Springs CA is on an Indian reservation. For interesting historical reasons, though, the reservation is basically shaped like a checkerboard, where every other 640-acre square is reservation land. This obviously has huge implications on real estate - none of the reservation land is sold, just leased, and there were some recent cases where the tribe…

That seems like an insane way to divvy up land. My first instinct was that it was done that way to make the land effectively unusable as tribal land, just because that's how the government tends to roll in these cases

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#262

Post by specialist » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 6:16 PM UTC

calvinmorrison wrote: post #128

"We reject that thinking. If Congress wishes to withdraw its promises, it must say so." As with so many controversial court rulings like the ACA mandate case, our courts keep getting put into the decision because of the massive failure that congress is. Congress should either fulfill the promise or not, or whatever. instead the judicial bodies end up making legal judgements with big ramifcations that largely should b…

I've recently adopted both Francis Fukuyama's vetocracy thesis as well as Ezra Klein's prescription for majoritarian rule.

Yes, both are major oversimplifications to a complicated situation, with path dependencies and subtle counterintuitive cofactors. But it's good battle cry.

We need more accountability, more transparency, more democracy.

A systems engineer strives to create functional feedback loops. Today, that means closing the gaps in our broken feedback loops. Consent of the governed, and so forth.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#263

Post by conception » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 6:16 PM UTC

ISL wrote: post #238

war1025 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because of the massive failure that congress is This is a conclusion I'm coming to more and more. It's easy to blame Presidential overreach or Supreme Court overreach, but the Congress seems to be steadily abdicating responsibility while still managing to get very little of substance accomplished. They are supposed to be the most powerful branch of government, but instead they have deadlocked themselves into useles…

While in effect it is abdicating, in reality, Congress is spinlocked by indecision. There are deep divides between the branches of the electorate that have brought the representatives to office, as the United States faces a number of divisive issues. Those divides, and a preference for combat over compromise, leave us deadlocked. The center is there for the first party that chooses to leave its entrenchement. When Co…

I think there are perceived deep divides but those are mostly fictional. e.g. a number of conservatives like the ACA but hate Obamamcare. Propaganda is doing its job of keeping the electorate divided, even if a large number of our aims are actually aligned.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#264

Post by nemothekid » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 6:17 PM UTC

Sharlin wrote: post #250

krapp wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They are supposed to be the most powerful branch of government, but instead they have deadlocked themselves into uselessness. That's what many Americans wanted, and voted for. A government that governs least governs best, after all.

I… find it rather difficult to believe that a sufficient number of Americans coordinated and voted strategically over decades in order to intentionally bring to existence the current two-party deadlock situation.

It's working as designed. The same system that prevents Congress from properly voting on PPP Loans is the same system that prevents Trump from banning all muslims from the country overnight.

I'm not smart enough to know if there is a better solution for America.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#265

Post by busterarm » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 6:17 PM UTC

ISL wrote: post #238

war1025 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because of the massive failure that congress is This is a conclusion I'm coming to more and more. It's easy to blame Presidential overreach or Supreme Court overreach, but the Congress seems to be steadily abdicating responsibility while still managing to get very little of substance accomplished. They are supposed to be the most powerful branch of government, but instead they have deadlocked themselves into useles…

While in effect it is abdicating, in reality, Congress is spinlocked by indecision. There are deep divides between the branches of the electorate that have brought the representatives to office, as the United States faces a number of divisive issues. Those divides, and a preference for combat over compromise, leave us deadlocked. The center is there for the first party that chooses to leave its entrenchement. When Co…

Except this is demonstrably untrue.

The 115th (2017-2018)[1] Congress had both a Republican House and Senate and it got extremely little done.

Our Congress is completely ineffective.

[1]:Fixed.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#266

Post by dqpb » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 6:17 PM UTC

> Tribe members who live within the boundaries are now set to become exempt from certain state obligations such as paying state taxes

What about everyone else? Shouldn't they pay taxes to the tribe?

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#267

Post by refurb » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 6:17 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #74

refurb wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep one? Aren't there hundreds of reservations across the US?

Keep a treaty . We've a long history of breaking them when we feel like it.

Likewise, there are hundreds of treaties still in existence.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#268

Post by Mangalor » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 6:17 PM UTC

luckylion wrote: post #237

Mangalor wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All these legalistic reponses, and yet none really touches the sheer absurdity of sentencing someone to 1,000 years. Doesn't the lifespan of a human being figure in at any point? Talking this way is dehumanizing.

Yes, it's called a life sentence. Nobody is expected to live a thousand years, and they're not going to keep them in prison after they die.

I think you miss the point.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#269

Post by eropple » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 6:17 PM UTC

rndmize wrote: post #209

war1025 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because of the massive failure that congress is This is a conclusion I'm coming to more and more. It's easy to blame Presidential overreach or Supreme Court overreach, but the Congress seems to be steadily abdicating responsibility while still managing to get very little of substance accomplished. They are supposed to be the most powerful branch of government, but instead they have deadlocked themselves into useles…

I'm tempted to say that the uselessness of Congress is in indication of something else - we've pushed too much to the federal level. The decades-long tooth-and-nail fighting over healthcare makes me think that an effective system just can't be done federally; there's too much disagreement between states. Why not scrap most of the social programs, cut federal taxes, and let states implement their own?

> Why not scrap most of the social programs, cut federal taxes, and let states implement their own?

Because I'm not really interested in abandoning my fellow citizens who lack the means or the support structures to leave where they currently are to the tender mercies of people who plainly don't give a damn about them.

Even every "red state" has plenty of people in need who can't afford to go elsewhere and shouldn't be asked to abandon their families and their lives to just not die.

(EDIT: I normally don't respond to killed comments, because feeding the trolls sucks, but: I live in Massachusetts, dude. I'm used to a state that actually works. I wish you all had them too.)

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#270

Post by lghh » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 6:18 PM UTC

munificent wrote: post #137

thekingofh wrote: post #25

I had the pleasure of driving through and visiting Oklahoma a decade or so ago. Some people don't like the rural states, but it felt so serene out there. We stopped at a shaved ice place off of some random exit and just sat there on the hood staring out at the plains. There's not much out there but it felt so peaceful. It felt like home.

Rural areas are almost uniformly beautiful and serene. It's the beliefs of the people in them that can be hostile.

Ah yes, unlike cities which house only the most pure of thought.