Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

uspirg.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 439 posts

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#261

Post by cletus »

OldManAndTheCpp wrote: post #255
cletus wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make a thing. You sell your thing. You sell it for more than it cost to make it. That's your revenue stream. But that's not enough (apparently) hence locking down repairs and other anti-end user behaviour.

Now you've shipped your thing that lasts forever. If it's a mechanical object, maybe you can get continuing revenue from spare parts, but those will bring in less than the original purchase. Worst case, someone brings up a factory copying your part design (without doing any engineering work on them, just copies them exactly), and undercuts you. If you sell software, do you let the old stuff atrophy and become insecur…

On the software front, this is why I, personally, am a fan of the subscription model... if done right. And almost no one does it right.

The shining example for actually doing it right is Jetbrains. There is a schedule for new releases they keep to. You get loyalty discounts for long term subscriptions and ending a subscription entitles you to a version that is ~1 year old in perpetuity.

Plus the prices are (IMHO) entirely reasonable.

Almost no one else does this. Other companies will, say, take the MSRP of the software package, divide it by 12 and give you that as the monthly price with a minimum contract period of 12 months. They'll also restrict you to choose platform when you purchase and may limit the number of installs rather than concurrent users.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#262

Post by parent5446 »

CamelCaseName wrote: post #233
andrepd wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows 7 is due to stop being updated very soon, all the while the only alternative is to downgrade into Windows 10.j sure don't call that "basically forever".

1. Windows 7 was supported with security updates for over 10 years (2009-2020). Second to only Windows XP (13 years) 2. They offered free upgrades to Windows 10 for a long time (a year?) 3. Replacement cycles for consumer desktops/laptops are short relative to OS cycles, with some internet stats saying ~5 years on average. 4. You can still run Windows 7, you just won't get security updates. You're free to repair it o…

>You're free to repair it on your own... If you can.

You literally can't. It's proprietary software that you have a limited license to. This isn't like a deprecated Linux distro that you can always jump in and patch the security issues yourself.

Hell I'm sure if these tractors ran on free software, there'd be a business out there competing against the manufacturer by fixing old tractor software if it meant pulling in consulting fees from the farmers. But they can't, because we live in a world where you don't own software, you lease it.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#263

Post by tim333 »

CamelCaseName wrote: post #233
andrepd wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows 7 is due to stop being updated very soon, all the while the only alternative is to downgrade into Windows 10.j sure don't call that "basically forever".

1. Windows 7 was supported with security updates for over 10 years (2009-2020). Second to only Windows XP (13 years) 2. They offered free upgrades to Windows 10 for a long time (a year?) 3. Replacement cycles for consumer desktops/laptops are short relative to OS cycles, with some internet stats saying ~5 years on average. 4. You can still run Windows 7, you just won't get security updates. You're free to repair it o…

They will also still provide 7 updates for money to corporate users.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#264

Post by AnthonyMouse »

cletus wrote: post #257
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can argue the battery should be replaceable but that adds to the size and cost (to have the packaging and interconnects) This is one of those things which is technically true but practically a red herring. The amount of weight it adds is on the order of grams and the cost is pennies. They stopped making replaceable batteries because they want you to throw away the device and buy a new one. > and who is going to…

> as long as the specifications are documented So this gets tricky and this is another reason why we can't have nice things. People produce things that look like an official thing, behave largely like an official thing but aren't to spec, sometimes with disastrous consequences like the man electrocuted by a shoddy charger [1]. As we've seen from the Samsung Note debacle a bad battery can destroy the device and even c…

You can tell if it's the battery manufacturer or the phone manufacturer at fault because if it's the battery manufacturer then the same thing won't happen with the original batteries.

And how to ensure battery quality is a completely independent problem from whether you can buy a battery from someone other than who made your phone. There have been fires with original batteries and there have been third party batteries without any problems.

It's like 1975 AT&T arguing that you should have to buy an AT&T phone because it connects to the phone network. Of course they want you to buy theirs, the issue is that they shouldn't be able to require you to -- or there wouldn't be any iPhones to begin with.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#265

Post by suzzer99 »

closetohome wrote: post #230
cletus wrote: post #210

What many people may not realize is just how long-lived a lot of farm equipment is. There will be tractors out there still working that are 75 years old and just keep getting repaired. Obviously the manufacturers would like to sell those farmers tractors more often than that or, in the very least, generate a revenue stream from existing hardware and honestly that's what I see a lot of computing in vehicles as being:…

The search for an ongoing revenue stream is one of the most destructive forces in the tech industry. It leads to some very customer-hostile experiences.

You mean you don't want a mattress subscription?

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#266

Post by suzzer99 »

Semiapies wrote: post #236
closetohome wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The search for an ongoing revenue stream is one of the most destructive forces in the tech industry. It leads to some very customer-hostile experiences.

The problem is that not having a revenue stream is one of the most destructive forces to tech (or other) companies , and people like to keep their jobs.

As I type this I'm looking at the Onkyo stereo and Polk speakers I bought in college. I'm 50 years old.

I can't help but think they regret making these things that durable.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#267

Post by tempestn »

anfilt wrote: post #260
OldManAndTheCpp wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cool thing I learned from watching AvE's channel is that bearing surfaces are meant to last forever if properly lubricated. The oil in them is meant to take all the load, and the metal surfaces should never touch. If you don't replace the oil regularly, or let it get so hot it flows out of the journal, the bearing will wear and need replacing. The design is meant to last a really long time if properly serviced and…

Thats pretty much right. Excluding how some types of bushings work, and other similar bearing surfaces. Side note. There also air bearings which are also pretty awesome but require tight machining tolerances. They are used in the semiconductor industry for some things. Mainly because you dont want lubricant to dirty the enviroment, but the tighter tolerances also help ensure a spindle/shaft dont wobble as much.

I assume this means it's airtight and instead of a cushion of oil, it uses a cushion of (presumably compressed) air?

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#268

Post by tempestn »

catalogia wrote: post #246
CamelCaseName wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Windows 7 was supported with security updates for over 10 years (2009-2020). Second to only Windows XP (13 years) 2. They offered free upgrades to Windows 10 for a long time (a year?) 3. Replacement cycles for consumer desktops/laptops are short relative to OS cycles, with some internet stats saying ~5 years on average. 4. You can still run Windows 7, you just won't get security updates. You're free to repair it o…

13 years of support may very well be above and beyond the norm in the software industry, but that doesn't make it "basically forever".

The free update to Windows 10 does though. And despite your GP's rhetorical flourish, it's hardly a "downgrade".

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#269

Post by freehunter »

p1necone wrote: post #240
freehunter wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The last iPhone I bought was the 6S 4 years ago and I think it was $649 But now? The 11 Pro is $1000. WTF? Ridiculous argument. Apple still makes a current-generation phone roughly on par with the price that you found acceptable. Just because they also added a more expensive mode does not in any way discount that fact.

I don't think this is true, Apple has definitely been raising prices significantly in the last few years even on the cheapest models. Unless you're counting still being able to buy a generation or two behind for cheaper as "current generation" Edit: this article has a nice chart https://www.gsmarena.com/price_history_of_apples_iphones-new... There's a couple of blips with the 5c and the SE but for the most part even…

I don’t know how you can say “I don’t think this is true”... it’s not an opinion it’s just actual fact. The iPhone 11 is $699 and the person found $650 to be acceptable. That’s roughly comparable prices.

Again, just because Apple added a more expensive model doesn’t mean the iPhone 11 is any worse nor is it “budget” or “a generation or two behind”. It’s actually called iPhone 11 not iPhone 11c or iPhone 11SE or iPhone 11R, the iPhone 11 is the model Apple expects people to buy which is why it’s called iPhone 11 as a follow up to the iPhone XS which was a follow up to the iPhone X.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#270

Post by lbotos »

closetohome wrote: post #230
cletus wrote: post #210

What many people may not realize is just how long-lived a lot of farm equipment is. There will be tractors out there still working that are 75 years old and just keep getting repaired. Obviously the manufacturers would like to sell those farmers tractors more often than that or, in the very least, generate a revenue stream from existing hardware and honestly that's what I see a lot of computing in vehicles as being:…

The search for an ongoing revenue stream is one of the most destructive forces in the tech industry. It leads to some very customer-hostile experiences.

My fave is "subscription headphones": https://www.nuraphone.com/products/nuranow
Post reply on HN